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  1. #56821
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    It's not "money" that is an obstacle to a "perfect world". It's scarcity. Money is the means of measurement of scarcity. Getting rid of money would be kind of like getting rid of math.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #56822
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    yes and what I was suggesting is that instead of throwing money in a safe and back into circulation in order to start projects, people could simplify it and just use the resources in front of them and scarcity would start to disappear. I think the problem is that people use resources to back money instead of using money as a resource and people use money as a measurement of power instead of something that could possibly be useful to the common good. Math is a concept that can't be tangibly changed, but at any time we could easily change the currency to waffles or something else or even start up a trading system so that people don't all have to use the same currency. Not that implementing a different system would completely erase scarcity, but it would help, because basically what I look at in governmental books is so complicated, it's pathetic. president's use gold to back currency instead of making it into jewelry? You might as well make the gold into coins and use that as a currency, because at least it would have more than one use than buying and you could melt it down into something that can be used by the general public. the only people I see being affected by the lack of money would be those poor rich people that would have to actually work to find a new way to identify themselves. what would you think would be a great way to reduce scarcity? finding new ways to supply energy and produce food would be a vital step, but then again the concept of money gets in the way of that because it costs people money to start up a project. maybe money isn't the problem, maybe it's the laws causing money to be the minimal requirement to do anything in the world, but anyways, what would you think? I'm open to any insights that might be better than my suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It's not "money" that is an obstacle to a "perfect world". It's scarcity. Money is the means of measurement of scarcity. Getting rid of money would be kind of like getting rid of math.

  3. #56823
    Senior Member Captain_Invincible's Avatar
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    I seriously think I am caught in a loop, and it's screwing me over so badly...

    All I've been doing is eat, shit, sleep repeat lately. I have no energy for nothing.

    I can just about accomplish my plans for the day...

  4. #56824
    corona Hawthorne's Avatar
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    The only thing I want for Christmas is a sexy saxagram.

  5. #56825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Invincible View Post
    I seriously think I am caught in a loop, and it's screwing me over so badly...

    All I've been doing is eat, shit, sleep repeat lately. I have no energy for nothing.

    I can just about accomplish my plans for the day...
    LOL

    *Does exactly what I would do on a normal day* "It's screwing me over so badly"

    me = and :offended:

  6. #56826
    Senior Member Captain_Invincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagician View Post
    LOL

    *Does exactly what I would do on a normal day* "It's screwing me over so badly"

    me =
    It is, really. I'm usually a lot more hyped up and less tired and never eat as much shit as I have been lately.

    It seems like my Se is trying to creep out an' punch me on the face. Hard.

  7. #56827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Invincible View Post
    It is, really. I'm usually a lot more hyped up and less tired and never eat as much shit as I have been lately.

    It seems like my Se is trying to creep out an' punch me on the face. Hard.
    Awwhh. I'm sorry, then! Well all I can do is remind you that you have yet to drink your coffee. So go do that.

  8. #56828
    Senior Member Captain_Invincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagician View Post
    Awwhh. I'm sorry, then! Well all I can do is remind you that you have yet to drink your coffee. So go do that.
    I already had 3 cups today... now all I wanna do is lay down and listen to music

  9. #56829
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flybylikeahurricane View Post
    yes and what I was suggesting is that instead of throwing money in a safe and back into circulation in order to start projects, people could simplify it and just use the resources in front of them and scarcity would start to disappear. I think the problem is that people use resources to back money instead of using money as a resource and people use money as a measurement of power instead of something that could possibly be useful to the common good.
    No, you wouldn't end up with an idyllic utopia of people wisely using resources to help each other. You would end up with a scenario more resembling Mad Max or zombie apocalypse.

    I'm open to any insights that might be better than my suggestions.
    Money serves two very important purposes. 1) It makes it easier to exchange goods to get what you need, since finding the 10 chickens your neighbor needs is kind of tricky, but finding $10 is easy. 2) It lets people know what NEEDS are being unmet (absent credit bubbles and similar monetary phenomena, which is a very tangential topic).

    The reason your grocery store has EXACTLY what you need is because the fact that people PAY for "this" instead of "that" tells them what to stock on the shelves. Money keeps all of this smooth and easy.

    All the problems you associate with money are the exact problems that money solves for the most part: things are naturally scarce. Money doesn't address ALL scarcity problems, though, and of course people try to take advantage of the monetary system, which is its own set of problems. The main takeaway I intend for you is to realize that while using money implies that we have the kinds of abuses committed by big corporations and so on, a world that doesn't use money would instead have warlords raiding your idyllic utopian village and taking all your stuff. At least big corporations are forced to sell things that people actually want for the most part.

    Oh, and one last thing, it isn't "Money is the root of all evil." It's "The love of money is the root of all [or all kinds of] evil." (Timothy 6:10)
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
    Likes Julius_Van_Der_Beak, N/A liked this post

  10. #56830
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    Thanks for educating me on the apparent uses of money :p. There's a difference between using money to balance everything out and keep resources high and regarding it as a basic requirement for living. If a fisher has no money, he has no choice but to pay with fish, but the government requires people to either pay money or to die on the streets. I don't really see that aspect of money as helping society, so perhaps a bartering system can be implemented along with currency, so that money is the official currency, but one can sell their resources or trade for other resources if they need to and the government can simply tax people for whatever they can give that is transportable without going bad. What I'm trying to say is that in a perfect society, everything is negotiable and there is no set way to do things. People that want to have a set way of doing things can start their own organized club or group and the rest of society will be free.
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    No, you wouldn't end up with an idyllic utopia of people wisely using resources to help each other. You would end up with a scenario more resembling Mad Max or zombie apocalypse.



    Money serves two very important purposes. 1) It makes it easier to exchange goods to get what you need, since finding the 10 chickens your neighbor needs is kind of tricky, but finding $10 is easy. 2) It lets people know what NEEDS are being unmet (absent credit bubbles and similar monetary phenomena, which is a very tangential topic).

    The reason your grocery store has EXACTLY what you need is because the fact that people PAY for "this" instead of "that" tells them what to stock on the shelves. Money keeps all of this smooth and easy.

    All the problems you associate with money are the exact problems that money solves for the most part: things are naturally scarce. Money doesn't address ALL scarcity problems, though, and of course people try to take advantage of the monetary system, which is its own set of problems. The main takeaway I intend for you is to realize that while using money implies that we have the kinds of abuses committed by big corporations and so on, a world that doesn't use money would instead have warlords raiding your idyllic utopian village and taking all your stuff. At least big corporations are forced to sell things that people actually want for the most part.

    Oh, and one last thing, it isn't "Money is the root of all evil." It's "The love of money is the root of all [or all kinds of] evil." (Timothy 6:10)

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