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  1. #41
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Mar 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Do you ever scuba dream? It's something I made up to describe what happens when I dream within a dream, within a dream, within a dream, to the point where I finally wake up, I can count the levels I swam up through, like a scuba diver, to finally arrive above the ocean. I know . . . I'm weird.
    Yeah, this was being discussed briefly on vent, false awakenings. I had one recently, but it was only one dream in a dream, in the past I've had those levels you mention, it's quite disconcerting but always interesting.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #42
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007


    What makes me 'sure', to the extent that I'm able to be sure about anything that cannot be disproven? The sheer complexity of such an undertaking, the lack of advantage for any self-interested intelligent agency to do so, and the painful and mundane nature of my existence, which rules out the possibility of 'benign' motives while simultaneously being too minor to make it worth the trouble for any god-like sadist to engineer for amusement . But hey, maybe I'm just a butterfly dreaming that I'm a main.....if so, I'd rather not wake up, being a butterfly sounds worse.

    Now, the apparent lack of free will regardless of whether we live in a matrix or not.....that's something that worries me.

  3. #43
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    Homo sapiens responds to the imagination in almost the same way we respond to reality. This is how we have created religion, art, science, music and movies.

    And just as Eve was tempted by the apple, we are tempted to elide the difference between imagination and reality.

    We have though discovered the antidote which is evidence and reason.

    And because we are so tempted to believe our imagination is reality, the easiest person to fool is ourselves. We have recognised this and administer the antdote of evidence and reason.

    Mbti depends upon eliding the difference between imagination and reality, and avoiding evidence and reason.

  4. #44
    Member Guy V. Malaxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011


    Nothing, I guess, which makes thought exercises like these pointless.

  5. #45
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012


    There's so many unfathomable details that I find it highly unlikely that they're virtualized. Any approximation of reality which is this good may as well just be called reality.

    Prime example is my favorite Rubik's style puzzle cube. I collect cubes and speed solve almost every day, and the one I have used the most for thousands of solves has a distinctive wear pattern which has slowly changed the feel of it over time. Only I can know how it's progressively changed and broken in over a few years because I'm so intimately familiar with it. It is worn to the point that it has become sloppy and is not a good speed cube anymore.

    What virtual reality would model something to that level? What would be the point - it'd probably be easier to make the real thing than to make a system to fake it.

    To use a technical term, I'd say it's almost surely not. 'Almost surely' means it is technically possible but the probability of it being true is for most purposes effectively zero.

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