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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Whatever you call justice is probably more based on revenge than you imagine.
    Justice revolves around 2 basic values: reparative and punitive.
    The latter is essentially a vengeance, despite the fact most people choose to ignore this factor.
    I dont believe that justice and revenge are synomynous, although I think there's such a thing as just or justifiable revenge.

    To be honest the popularity of revenge as an idea probably speaks volumes about how inadequate the principle of justice as it exists in this age is.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #22
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The fact that they would do that means they already lost.
    Yeah, that's a better way of putting it.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #23
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To be honest the popularity of revenge as an idea probably speaks volumes about how inadequate the principle of justice as it exists in this age is.
    This coming from the guy who just wrote "I think [revenge is] one of the really worthwhile things there is."

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    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

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  4. #24
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, that's a better way of putting it.
    I'm sure you, more than most, would know how this relates to Nietzsche's thought.

    (Of course, I'm not sure what Nietzsche actually thought, but my position is a step beyond the general version of Nietzsche we get on this topic.)

    To desire revenge is to have resentiment, and to have resentiment is to already lose.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  5. #25
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    On topic.

    On success being the best form of revenge, here's an awesome quote:

    “If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
    ― Sun Tzu
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Whatever you call justice is probably more based on revenge than you imagine.
    Justice revolves around 2 basic values: reparative and punitive.
    The latter is essentially a vengeance, despite the fact most people choose to ignore this factor.
    That seems to ignore preventative justice. I believe in revoking a license or sentencing someone to jail not as a means of punishment but as a means to prevent further injustice.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #27
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I just think it's nice to see "you reap what you sow"/poetic justice/karma eventually catch up with people who thought they could get everything they wanted out of life by behaving badly. Sometimes it takes a while, but it 's satisfying to see it at work. (even if I tend to think that strictly speaking I shouldn't be "satisfied" by it - it IS satisfying.)
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I've already been through that stage.

    There's a stage beyond it.
    It seems you are always on the ultimate stage of every subject.
    The answer to your rep is yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe that justice and revenge are synomynous, although I think there's such a thing as just or justifiable revenge.

    To be honest the popularity of revenge as an idea probably speaks volumes about how inadequate the principle of justice as it exists in this age is.
    Agreed, but I should mention this does not contradict my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    On topic.

    On success being the best form of revenge, here's an awesome quote:

    “If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
    ― Sun Tzu
    This is war tactics, not revenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That seems to ignore preventative justice.
    This is a desired result, but ultimately out of control. Justice isn't about odds.
    I believe in revoking a license or sentencing someone to jail not as a means of punishment but as a means to prevent further injustice.
    Yes.

  9. #29
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    This is a desired result, but ultimately out of control. Justice isn't about odds.

    Yes.
    How is it in less control than reparation?

    Everything is about odds.

    Anyhow, you seem to agree with me about keeping people from committing further injustice. Is that not preventative justice, though?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #30
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    It seems you are always on the ultimate stage of every subject.
    No, it's not ultimate.

    It's just beyond most other people.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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