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  1. #111
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    after watching this

    also, do you think that native americans should get land and restitution for what white people who moved to their land have done to them?
    I dont believe in collective responsibility of this kind, certainly not based upon ethnicity, nor do I believe in people paying for the crimes of their ancestors when they are not actively persisting in the same error or where that error is of no consequence (there are a lot of traditions which are in error but dont really matter).

    If any final reparation was to be paid, to any group which has suffered historically, its not going to be very much once deductions are made for welfare, goods and services already received, it would also have to be a final deal as in those conscenting to it would accept that there will be no further action, grievance or claim by them or their descendants from that day hence.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #112
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010


    Wow, that was a really inspiring presentation. I was familiar with most of the content, but the speaker's delivery and accompanying photographs really drove the point home. I absolutely abhor the colonial history of the US and the decimation of Native culture, dignity, quality of life, etc. The return of land is problematic-- ideally, sure, I would say that we should return the land, but that would only have been realistic very shortly after the land was taken. At this point, there are so many people in the US who were born here, whose families have been here for generations, and although we all benefit from the chain of events set off by colonial exploitation of the Natives, we aren't really at fault for it.

    Even if we were at fault, it is just not plausible that we could return all the land stolen from Natives. What are we going to do, all go back to Europe? And what about those of us who are mutts-- do I return to Ireland and my brother to Germany, since we are (mostly) half and half? (We are also part American Indian, but it is a small part and although I acknowledge that part of my heritage, I do not lay claim to that identity.) There's also the issue of the "40 acres and a mule" promised to freed slaves - from what I understand, there are questions of fulfilling that broken promise, which was problematic in the first place because the government basically promised stolen land to these people. However, I do believe some restitution should be made - not in the form of money, necessarily, as that is short-term and evidently the Natives don't consider that a suitable solution... but perhaps returning sites that are especially sacred/important to Native culture, such as the Black Hills, to Native control.

    Oh the subject of Native exploitation, I highly recommend the book Conquest: Sexual Violence and American Indian Genocide. Some really appalling and interesting stuff in here. It was written by a professor at the University of Minnesota, with foreword by Winona LaDuke, who ran with Ralph Nader in the '96 and 2000 presidential races.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  3. #113
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    10w so


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    3. as a mutt, I would like to know where I'd get sent back to if we get kicked out of North America... please don't say I'm going to get sliced and diced and sent to ALL of the countries of my ancestors!
    No, It's a complicated procedure involving cloning and gene therapy.

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