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  1. #31
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2008

    Default NTs understanding of NFs and vice-versa

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Here's an example of a typical NF/NT exchange -- my favorite writer committed suicide a few months ago and I just heard about it and was quite shocked, sad, and depressed about it. He was only 46 and he had fought his depression for years, and had faithfully taken his antidepressants every day so he could function ... he went off of his medication with doctor's supervision and approval so they could try to find one that had fewer side effects, and it turned out that nothing else would work for him, and he spiraled down, lost 70 pounds, withdrew more and more ... they put him back on the medication that had worked for him, and it didn't work for him anymore either, and he hung himself. So I'm writing to my NT friend how it's tragic and I can't accept it and it's unfair and I'm mad at God ... and she writes back well, we're all going to die, who's to quibble about a decade or two either way, the fact is, that's the progression of the disease of depression, and it's not so much that he was in unbearable psychic pain as that he just succumbed to his disease. It's what happens.


    I typically have to wait a few days before I answer her because my first response to that was something along the lines of You Cold Bitch, but then I realized she was trying to make me feel better.

    I think that's typical NT/NF. It really takes an effort to understand and give the other person the benefit of the doubt.
    This is a great example, but I'll add another with a slightly different twist. Last week when I was in the hospital with a broken shoulder, what I wanted most from my INTJ was his presence because it comforted me. He elected to build a bed for us--a project we'd discussed before the accident--instead. I was shocked and disappointed, to say the least. Later I came to realize that he saw no purpose in sitting by my bedside holding my hand, though that was what I wanted, even felt I needed. Building the bed to him was something useful he could do. He continued to tell me how much he loved me. He reported each day's progress on the bed in detail. He managed to make two short trips to the hospital the week I was there and said he kept having dreams about my leaving him.

    I think I understand his reasoning, but I feel like an idiot for expecting an emotional response from him in the first place; and despite my understanding of his decision, there's still a residual hurt on my part. I guess it makes me question whether understanding will be enough.
    It's a blessing...and a curse.

    Originally Posted by Anja
    I don't have room for shame in my life.

    INFJ, 4w5 sx

  2. #32
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    3w4 sx/so


    Quote Originally Posted by Gauche View Post
    Well, based on some recent threads, where NTs and NFs are arguing and cannot find an agreement, but also on my observations over time, I'm getting more and more convinced about something:

    NTs and NFs have a very hard time understanding each other, in means of their opinions on some serious topics.

    NTs operate on the rational reasonings, and it just doesn't make sense for them to rely anyhow on emotions in serious truth-finding. They must see logic in everything. They know that NFs are somewhat emotional, but I guess they take them, as they were "sentimental". They don't understand that NFs live on emotions, and that for them is important what they feel about things, not what is logical interpretation of things. NTs just don't copy that, perhaps it's not surprising, because they are Ts. They don't work on this wavelength.

    Similarly, NFs can have a hard time debating with NTs. NFs can be really annoyed and puzzled, when they consider deep, interpersonal thing, and NT analyse that and apply logic, and "don't feel the real meaning". In other words, NTs apply logic and cold rational methods even where that souldn't be used, and that bugs NFs.

    So I think that realms of NTs and NFs are really different in particular matters, and it's very hard to agree on such things for them. They work on different mechanisms and causally cannot understand the each other.
    I'm not saying that thinking or feeling approach is better here. They are just different, and both have pros and cons. And each one can supplement what the other one lack, then.

    What do you think?
    How can NTs and NFs understand each other well?
    Right, we both can learn from each other's insights! Good copy.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  3. #33
    Member Nyota's Avatar
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    Nov 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by cherchair View Post
    I think I understand his reasoning, but I feel like an idiot for expecting an emotional response from him in the first place; and despite my understanding of his decision, there's still a residual hurt on my part. I guess it makes me question whether understanding will be enough.
    This is huge. It's very difficult; and I've been there. Of course you love your NT and love his logical side (it's what is so attractive) and you long for mutual understanding. But like you said, will understanding be enough?

    In the long run, no. At least with my experience. You can 'understand' why someone acts one way or another, but until you can empathize (totally an NF term, but I have no other way to put it) and be in their shoes, I think there's room for disappointment. If he cannot truly know why and what emotions you are experiencing and not only love them for what they are but also feel them, there's that feeling of separation and dissatisfaction. The same goes for his side as well. NFs have a hard time thinking logically and NTs may think like that special 'something' is not there because of it.

    Of course the balance and completion that comes with an NF/NT intimate relationship is amazing. But I feel as if it's a very difficult thing to receive a deeper connection without that sameness there.
    INFj. 4w5.
    Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What! You too? I thought I was the only one!'
    --C.S. Lewis

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