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Hidden agenda + POLR

Agent Washington

Softserve Ice Cream
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Jan 24, 2017
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Especially looking for answers from SLI and ILU, because i'm trying to figure out how this works.

According to what I've seen, Hidden Agenda for SLI and ILI is Fi, which is described as "to love". Unfortunately, I haven't found much info on this. I suspect the INTJs that I know, who COULD be ILIs, actually do seem to have this as an agenda. (I'm not 100% sure about what I am in socionics.)

Here is the list for hidden agenda. It's the 7th function.

ENTp, ESTp => to be loved
INTj, INFj => to be healthy
ESFj, ESTj => to be perfect
ISFp, INFp => to understand
ENFj, ENTj => to be wealthy
ISTj, ISFj => to believe
ESFp, ENFp => to know
INTp, ISTp => to love

This is the description:
Type and the hidden agenda by Sergei Ganin

Every person has a hidden agenda. This agenda often governs one's intentions and behaviour. People are often unaware of its origin, but can always feel its significance. Some people are more affected by it than other people. Every type requires an optimal condition in which it can function properly. If such condition does not exist, a person will normally attempt to create it. However, due to the nature of the hidden agenda, if and when the optimal condition is reached, the person will occasionally put themselves in a situation where the stability of this condition is threatened.

The tentative ILIs I've seen are incredibly affectionate to their pets in particular, I assume because pets aren't complicated to love, and it's an outlet for that.

Which leads me to the PoLR function, which in ILIs and SLIs are Fe. It's the 4th function in socionics. Fe PoLR is described as being inexpressive, direct, no concern for group feelings/ethics and other Fe concerns. Which I think would necessarily contradict, to some extent, the Fi Hidden Agenda, which is to love.

On a theoretical basis, it feels like the quality in a desired object (in Lacanian terms, the objet petit a), and PoLR seems to contradict, or at least hinder, in engaging said object, thereby creating a state of constant unfulfilment, at least in the subconscious (?).

...Thoughts?

What are your experiences with HA and PoLR functions?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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I've always understood the hidden agenda as a way to make up for your PoLR. You may be reluctant to share that kind of information, but you're passively always taking it in, giving you a good understanding of it so long as you have hands on experience. For example for my type Ti is the PoLR, with Te there to compensate for that lacking passively. When it comes to methods and how to do things, I need hands on experience in order to have that knowledge. But then it sticks with me. For this reason I can know how to do something, but not necessarily know why it works the way it does (until later). The hidden agenda is something you secretly care about, and when you see this element used well from someone else it will pique your interest, hence Activation.

The PoLR seems to be something you have to learn the hard way in life. It's never easy to overcome your issues with it, it almost feels like a life lesson.
 

thoughtlost

Honeyed Water
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Hm, thinking about this one...

Well, Se is definitely a big learning curve for me. I am crap at being assertive in almost any manner. I definitely cannot "grab 'em by the horns". I am pretty passive. It would be good to get better at it, and it's really cool to see other people use it. I do like being around people who know how to make an environment pleasant (without going super overboard, though). I don't understand the descriptions where the INFj wants to take care of the ESTj ...I love it when my friends take care of me instead (make sure I eat well, play nice music for me when I go over to their house ...you know, the simple stuff) <3
 

Agent Washington

Softserve Ice Cream
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The PoLR seems to be something you have to learn the hard way in life. It's never easy to overcome your issues with it, it almost feels like a life lesson.

God, my Fe PoLR does seem to be kicking my ass. Assuming it's an Fe PoLR.
 

Typh0n

clever fool
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The hidden agenda is the sixth, not seventh function, in model A.

I think the names are a bit silly and misleading tbh. For example, Fi HA, which is described as "to love" could mean either Fe or Fi. Both functions really deal with the capacity to love, and be loved, with love in general. They just process information very, very differently and can't really stand each other (in the sense that Fe valuers can't stand Fi and vice versa with Fi valuers and Fe).
 

Typh0n

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Hm, thinking about this one...

Well, Se is definitely a big learning curve for me. I am crap at being assertive in almost any manner. I definitely cannot "grab 'em by the horns". I am pretty passive. It would be good to get better at it, and it's really cool to see other people use it. I do like being around people who know how to make an environment pleasant (without going super overboard, though). I don't understand the descriptions where the INFj wants to take care of the ESTj ...I love it when my friends take care of me instead (make sure I eat well, play nice music for me when I go over to their house ...you know, the simple stuff) <3

The bolded has nothing to do with Se. It is a total Si statement, especially evidenced by your use of the word "pleasant".
 

thoughtlost

Honeyed Water
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The bolded has nothing to do with Se. It is a total Si statement, especially evidenced by your use of the word "pleasant".

Exactly, Si is what and INFj finds valuable. Not Se. I am bad at Se; it's what I struggle with. I prefer to not strain myself. I just didn't think I needed to explicitly say that I valued socionics Si.
 

Typh0n

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Exactly, Si is what and INFj finds valuable. Not Se. I am bad at Se; it's what I struggle with. I prefer to not strain myself. I just didn't think I needed to explicitly say that I valued socionics Si.

I was just confused since you were talking about improving your Se before that, the cutoff wasn't clear to me.
 

hjgbujhghg

I am
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Hm, thinking about this one...

Well, Se is definitely a big learning curve for me. I am crap at being assertive in almost any manner. I definitely cannot "grab 'em by the horns". I am pretty passive. It would be good to get better at it, and it's really cool to see other people use it. I do like being around people who know how to make an environment pleasant (without going super overboard, though). I don't understand the descriptions where the INFj wants to take care of the ESTj ...I love it when my friends take care of me instead (make sure I eat well, play nice music for me when I go over to their house ...you know, the simple stuff) <3

I sometimes can't believe how much I relate to a lot of stuff that you post. I think we're not the same type, because there're differences but I think we're at least something very similar.
 

Norrsken

self murderer
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To be healthy always was and always will be my goal in life so yeah, INFj would make sense for me.
 

slylingual

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There are two IEI (Ni-Fe) on this thread who claim they relate to Si HA meanwhile Si HA is associated with EII (Fi-Ne) and Ti HA is associated with IEI (Ni-Fe)


I think Fi HA is misunderstood (as is evidenced by what I've read about it on 16types) but to address what you've said here:
Fe PoLR is described as being inexpressive, direct, no concern for group feelings/ethics and other Fe concerns. Which I think would necessarily contradict, to some extent, the Fi Hidden Agenda, which is to love.

I think it's important to make a quick distinction between Fi and Fe before I go into Fi HA/Fe PoLR specifically.

Fi is related to interpersonal bonds (the implicit connection between you and another person; "still waters run deep"; repulsion and attraction) while Fe is related to emotions (the explicit expression of one's emotional state with the ability to interpret + change the emotional state of another person, as well as the collective emotional status of the group). Fi happens inside, Fe happens outside. Fi is primarily concerned with the self, and those connected to the self (friends, family, partners, pets, etc) whereas Fe is more likely to be concerned about other people while not considering if they share an interpersonal bond with those people.

Fi (or "feelings") is quiet, biased, and unwavering. Fe (or "emotions") is louder, unbiased, and fleeting. Fe tends to believe in equal treatment for everyone. Fi tends to alter their treatment of individuals based on a storehouse of minuscule factors. Therefore, Fi HA/Fe PoLR is more likely to alter their treatment of individuals than your average Fi-valuer, so there is a larger disparity between how they treat strangers, and how they treat their loved ones. And generally speaking, Fi is actions > words.

In my experience, SLI/ILI are courteous and sincere unless significant trauma leads them to behave otherwise, but that's true for any sociotype. It's just that you'll rarely catch them expressing emotions. And they struggle to read others' emotions. They show their love in discrete ways. Naturally, SLI is more likely to offer assistance in the physical realm (sensing) which often manifests as care-giving tendencies (Si) or sharing knowledge (Te, can be Si) while ILI is more likely to offer assistance in the theoretical realm (intuition) which often manifests as giving direction, counsel (Ni) or sharing knowledge (Te). But this specialized treatment is reserved for their loved ones. For the most part, their attitude toward strangers is more akin to general avoidance than anything inherently negative.

So to many outsiders, they'll seem cold and distant, but to their inner circle, especially if their inner circle contains Fi valuers, they'll receive a warmer evaluation. In short, you probably won't hear them say "I love you", but you'll definitely feel their love via their treatment of you. That is, if you're paying attention.


I like to use fictional examples to illustrate socionics phenomena, so I'll use Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games to illustrate Fi HA in SLI.

In the books, she's often described as cold and hostile to outsiders, but the primary reason she hunts is to feed not only herself, but her mother and sister (Prim). Early in the first book, she volunteers in place of her sister at the reaping. When she finally makes it to the games, she makes a point of not killing unless it's absolutely necessary. She has an instinct to protect the weak (Rue) but she understands that if she makes it to the end, then she'll have no choice but to kill Rue. But this is an act of self-preservation, not malice. And it's an act of love because if Katniss dies, then Prim will be left without a sister and possibly even without food. When you read the books, it's easy to see how deeply Katniss feels, but since her feelings rarely see the light of day - to strangers, it'll seem as if she feels nothing.

Another example is Lisbeth Salander in the Millennium series (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo) who I believe to be ILI, but I've seen arguments in favor of SLI.

Similar to Katniss, we have keen insight into Lisbeth's feelings, but very few people within Lisbeth's world know how she feels (not even Blomkvist knows how she feels, and he's closer to her than most people). Blomkvist doesn't believe Lisbeth is emotionless, but he does struggle to identify how she feels at any given moment, and this causes him a lot of confusion throughout the series ("do I approach her? do I leave her alone?"). However, if you read the books, then you'll know perfectly well how conflicted Lisbeth feels about Blomkvist. Upon realizing she might love Blomkvist, she goes through different stages of feelings, but she mulls over these feelings by herself. And ever-so-slightly, she alters her treatment of Blomkvist in response to her fluctuating internal states. We know how strongly Lisbeth feels about Blomkvist because we know how much she hates dealing with people, meanwhile she can easily spends months with Blomkvist. But my favorite expression of Lisbeth's love is whenever she visits Palmgren (her previous guardian) because she manages to be gentle without ever pitying him (which he appreciates).
 
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