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  1. #11


    *presents self as shining example of NF beta*
    It is our duty to create meaning.

    If only it were that simple.

  2. #12
    Member Drunkstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019


    Beta NF is like Aurora Asknes

    Delta NF is like Martin Lutherking

  3. #13
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    4w5 sx/so


    Personally speaking -

    Beta's way of looking at and approaching the world, relationships, human beings can feel very alien and confusing to me. Guess maybe it is the naivete of the Se PoLR partly, and also aligns with the way EII are portrayed (that I don't understand, nor can detect manipulation, even social/political 'benign' manipulation). Honestly I knew nothing about it and didn't even realize this was a thing until my brother, who is LIE, explained this to me, given that he has better access to the Ni/Se and is also way more skeptical of people than I am.

    I think these give a pretty good picture:

    2. "Decisive" trait (predominance of involutionary irrational aspects -Ni -Se)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others from the position of power 2) to interact with others from the position of advantage in rights, standing, and power 3) to use power methods to fight for an advantageous position within the system and have the right to put a claim to it 4) to operatively, in condensed periods of time, solve problems, his own and those of others, making responsible decisions and making others obey them 5) to win a dominating place in a system, to advantageously and operatively use own fighting qualities and particularities of the present moment 6) to authoritatively impose one's own will, decisions, and opinions.

    3. "Subjectivist" trait (predominance of evolutionary rational aspects +Ti +Fe)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to subjective analysis of events, opinions, and actions 2) to search for "the culpable" and displace them from the system, at the same time resisting being displaced, fighting for one's own place within the system 3) to contend the opinions and decisions of others and impose his own opinion as the final truth 4) to deliver his opinions firmly, sharply, unequivocally, displacing opponents out of the argument, out of the system of relations, out of the social system, and into the lower strata.
    2. "Objectivist" trait (predominance of evolutionary logic of actions and ethics of relations: +Fi +Te)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to trust their personal experience – professional, pragmatic, business experience derived from personal observations – and insist on one’s right to further act in accordance to it 2) to trust facts and to become persuaded by facts – to provide them as the main proof of one's correctness 3) to evaluate the situation by already transpired facts and to act in accordance with circumstances existing up to date, trusting one's own experience and one's notion of expedience of a particular course of action 4) to evaluate a person according to the level of his qualifications, based on facts of his professional training, attainments, and competence 5) to remove (or ask for removal) from work those who are inept and negligent, to push them out from work and projects 6) to fight for one's own participation in work or a project, for one's place on a working team, and to be able to defend it.

    3. "Judicious" trait (predominance of involutionary intuition of potential and sensing of sensations: -Ne -Si)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to develop their own creative abilities and talents, to be proud of them, and to demonstrate them at any convenient opportunity 2) to freely develop one’s own creative potential, to choose an occupation by one’s preferences 3) to at length discuss any interesting to them topic from perspective of multiple meanings, demanding respect towards one’s opinion irrespective of whether or not one is knowledgeable of the topic 4) to respect the opinion of authoritative experts, to make references to authoritative sources (for as long as they are considered to be so) 5) to indefinitely talk about and discuss an interesting to them problem instead of resolving it (or in place of resolving it)
    Also apparently, according to my brother, some Beta NFs can "bullshit" (obviously not always, but they are still capable) manipulating actual reason in favor of public persuasion through charm (Fe) and force (Se). They sound convincing even if they are not actually. Of course given that Te is 1D for me, I cannot spot this either; all I can tell is whether I find someone genuine or not. I am not a fan of "performances" whether through writing or oral, clearly attempting to (agenda) achieve some kind of public impact (persuasion; practically borders on attempted brainwashing at times - closing down alternative viewpoints, steamrolling people, repeating something (en masse; bandwagon effect kind of) so often it starts sounding like the only viewpoint out there - I find it obnoxious) when it comes to an argument, regardless of whether or not they are correct, or to what extent they are correct - and then going on to pretend they are not doing anything. I am, of course, not suggesting Beta NFs, or Betas in general, are insincere all the time, but I have seen the downside of desperately wanting social power and influence - REGARDLESS of instinct - so bad that I have developed a distaste for it.

    None of this I would have known had I not encountered the typology community. I tend to stay comfortable with people close to me, who understand me.

    Of course Delta NFs can also have flaws, it depends on the individual and interpersonal compatibility between two people.
    EII | INFP
    4w5-9w1-6w5 sx/so
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