[Alpha] I don't care about Fe stuff. Teach me to care?

[LovecraftianMonstrosity]

First I was introduced to typology by reading Psychological Types by Jung. I think I was around 19 or so. Then I discovered Socionics. I was fascinated. It had never occurred to me to consider people that way before. I felt excited about understanding what really made them tick.

When I first started I considered myself LII or . This was the early 2000s and Socionics was bursting forward (or it felt that way). This was before subtypes, Reinin dichotomies, or Oldham personalities, all we had was the model A and the Intertype relations theory built from processing the information elements from this model. I was fascinated by quadras and most especially by the concept of Duality.

I became obsessed with the idea of predicting who was what type upon meeting them. I looked at methods of Visual Identification to try to discover the types in real life. I would even compete and argue with a friend about such and such a person. I became obsessed with geometric patterns within the model to see if there was some theoretical way to "balance" dynamics in a random group of people by predicting it in advance given some random list of types. I would even play this game in real life as people walked into and out of say a coffee shop at first simply observing, but as I grew bolder learning to shift the dynamics.

At some point I gave up. There seemed to me to be no coherent way to mesh the types into a coherent framework. It just didn't make sense. Things in life were not as symmetrical as in the model! (It was not a good model.). However, it influenced my thinking. I decided that I was and so obviously I needed a
type for "balance." Thus began the search for my dual...

But that is a story for another time. The main point was that over time I became disillusioned with & and not only disillusioned, but perhaps a bit hostile as well. While I think of things related to as perhaps a bit unwise I still find them alluring or sexy. But things relating to ? No, it just feels like something I do not even notice whatsoever! (It doesn't interest me.).

Ironically, this fits in very well with model A:


LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.

LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.

LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being.

About the Superid functions:

The third row of Model A (functions 5 and 6) is called the Super-id block. The subject will appreciate direct help to the Super-id, and sees tasks related to it as chores best left to others, but also as a source of frequent recreation. When feeling like there's something missing in his life, the subject will try to use his Super-id functions, but with limited effect, as it often comes off as overkill and is usually poorly developed. Only in the presence of complementary types can an individual let loose his child-like Super-id without fear of criticism. But ironically, although these types will maintain a good deal of their Super-id information in the atmosphere, they will at the same time doggedly encourage him to keep using his Ego functions, which in the end is the healthiest thing for him to do anyway.

So in my mind I don't think of myself as any particular type. I don't think it quite works that way anymore. But I am concerned perhaps these 10 year old neurons may be influencing how I perceive my relations with others. For example I tend to think of and as opposing one another (except perhaps when pursuing passion in a relationship). I see things like family, community, holidays, small social gatherings, children, etc as not consciously important to me (though perhaps they are in my subconscious).

If this was MBTI one might say I was an INTP who hated ESFJS, but I see myself as & which is why I think of myself as ENTP in MBTI(?) But perhaps LII is more accurate:

Socionics Types: LII-INTj

Anyhow, none of that truly matters as it was just to set the stage for the main question which is: How do I get along with and ? It seems many of the people I do not understand well value these functions, particularly ISTJS, ISFJS, ESFJS, and ESTPS.

 

[erg]

What particularly bothers you about Fe and Se?

 

[LovecraftianMonstrosity]

Fe and Se are necessary right. They are a part of the world that often takes care of the tasks that we as persons undertake. Things like working hard is an Se value. THere is nothing wrong with that and in fact many things that are good about it. However, what the Se person may not often realize is that just because they individually may be able to do something it does not mean that everyone can. For example, Se types are often very present in sporting activities and events and they enjoy this sense of physical competition. That is all well and good, but not everyone is going to be a gold medal athlete. Even most Se dominant types the ESTP and ESFP are not going to go the the uppermost limits of their field of expertise, but often they hold the standard that one because one person has done so it is POSSIBLE and it is, however, I share a quote about that:

/////////////////I will use brackets as seperators just to make it easier to see where one thought fell away and another arose/////////////////

"In every affair consider what precedes and follows, and then undertake it. Otherwise you will begin with spirit; but not having thought of the consequences, when some of them appear you will shamefully desist. "I would conquer at the Olympic games." But consider what precedes and follows, and then, if it is for your advantage, engage in the affair. You must conform to rules, submit to a diet, refrain from dainties; exercise your body, whether you choose it or not, at a stated hour, in heat and cold; you must drink no cold water, nor sometimes even wine. In a word, you must give yourself up to your master, as to a physician. Then, in the combat, you may be thrown into a ditch, dislocate your arm, turn your ankle, swallow dust, be whipped, and, after all, lose the victory. When you have evaluated all this, if your inclination still holds, then go to war. Otherwise, take notice, you will behave like children who sometimes play like wrestlers, sometimes gladiators, sometimes blow a trumpet, and sometimes act a tragedy when they have seen and admired these shows. Thus you too will be at one time a wrestler, at another a gladiator, now a philosopher, then an orator; but with your whole soul, nothing at all. Like an ape, you mimic all you see, and one thing after another is sure to please you, but is out of favor as soon as it becomes familiar. For you have never entered upon anything considerately, nor after having viewed the whole matter on all sides, or made any scrutiny into it, but rashly, and with a cold inclination."

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So this to me is the problem of at least from an Ne point of view. Actually I will share this as well:

"Simplicity of life is the cornerstone of the Se psyche, while for the Ne complexity is sublime. Ne will take a leap of faith while Se will first test the water. The sum total of stuff (opinions, feelings, beliefs and judgements about one's external world) accumulated defines who Se is, whereas a contextual understanding of stuff defines Ne.

Se builds an understanding of the world by amassing stuff - from the bottom up, starting with basics and progressing to the more diverse. Ne builds understanding from the top down - creates a process, sees whether or not stuff validates the process, and then modifies it until understanding is achieved; and Ne usually stores the process but discards the stuff.

Ne thinks that stuff can always be picked up when needed while the Se considers that processes are not really useful without the details of their application. The more stuff Se amasses the more secure Se becomes because Se considers most stuff as relatively constant and hence, valuable. Se is a packrat of stuff and strives for an accumulation of knowledge, discarding little.

Ne is never convinced stuff will remain the same so Ne hones an analytical ability keeping the mind clear of stuff, which is forgotten so easily. Security for Ne is having a problem solving capability to analyse or take on the complexities of life. Ne will integrate a lot of processes into the fabric of their being making their persona very complex but Ne will amass very little stuff.

Se keeps it simple: all the details to solve a problem are simply remembered for future reference. Se notices everything but will only pick up new stuff that fits in with the stuff already possessed; knowledge is built one brick at a time. And, Se does not necessarily need to understand all the stuff amassed but it must in some way be familiar. Se solves problems by sorting through vast amounts of collected stuff - drawing on experience.

Ne will often go back to first principles and solve the same problem in a different way because they pick up different stuff having forgotten most of what was done in the past; experience is not wholly trusted. Ne notices very little but seeks to understand all stuff that is picked up, but will instantly discard the stuff not deemed relevant to the immediate problem or issue.

Se is a knowledge farmer sowing order, while Ne is the hunter-gatherer of knowledge adapting to each situation. Se fears stuff that is not already on the farm while Ne fears not having gathered enough stuff. Se looks upon most Ne as lacking practical knowledge or ability while Ne looks upon Se as intransigent or narrow-minded. "

Ne versus Se

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I think this is where many of my problems with stem from. Perhaps in a bit, if it feels right, I will share some thoughts on which I actually think I need to make more room for in my life, but I think there are limitations on as well.

 

[erg]

I'm afraid I cannot help you much with that because from what you described, it is a weakness for me too. We'll see about Fe.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Find an ESE, that's their job

 

[entropie]

Alpha: I dont care about Fe stuff?

Thats strange. In Alpha Fe is fundamental, I am the nerd in that group..

 

[virtualinsanity]

I'm not that great with Fe, either.. nor do I want to be.. but I have very well developed/high Se. In fact, I become amazing at whatever kinetic activity I actually try out.

 

[Galaxy Gazer]

I'm right there with you except I'm an Fi-dom, so no one expects me to be good at Fe stuff.
It's not that I'm cold or unfeeling, it's just... the unoriginal, overly-sentimental stuff that everyone is supposed to care about. That and, like you said, family and social gatherings. Does anyone really, honestly like getting together with their family? It's awkward, you can't speak your mind because it will probably cause a confrontation, no one does anything except sit around talking, and you're just sort of stuck until you've spent enough time there to not look like an asshole when you leave.

As for Se, I don't fully understand it. I've never been able to grasp the concept of living in the moment.
Maybe you're not an NTP? Your post seems sort of INTJ-ish (not sure what the socionics equivalent is).