• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Identity Relationships (ever been in one? what was it like?)

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ESTP's, ime, don't perceive me and my strangeness so singularly, but look more at whatever situation I'm in and advise me on how to improve that, which I find helpful. It is really great sometimes to let an ESTP analyze my life, but it isn't all broken and everything doesn't need to be fixed. They're also condescending too.

That's very interesting. I think I have accurately typed about 27 people that I have known personally for over two years, but I have yet to identify and type an ESTp (SLE, Beta). It's one of only three Sociotypes of whom I know no members--the other two being ISFp (SEI, Alpha) and, of course, my dual, ISTj (LSI, Beta). I'll have to be on the lookout for the behavior you describe to see whether I actually know any ESTps. My strategy is to type specific people I know very well and then look for similarities. If I know someone who's definitely an ENFp (EII, Delta), then it's easier to identify others of that Sociotype by asking, "Is X person more like the ENFps I know or more like the ENFjs I know?" Ultimately, I appreciate your providing a perception and description of ESTp that will help me identify one in the future.

In the end, I prefer types that share more functions with me than less. They are less tedious and laborious.

That's what I am finding. Most of the people I know are Ns, for example. I tend to be much closer to Fs. The problem is that, in the context of a romantic relationship, two Fs can really stink at problem-solving. Even the simplest of problems can be a challenge for two Fs. Typical example in which the problem is where the couple wants to go out to eat:

F1: Where do you want to go?
F2: I don't know. Where do you want to go?
F1: I don't really care. What sounds good to you?
F2: Nothing sounds particularly appealing at the moment.
F1: Well, we've got to eat somewhere. We're both starving.
F2: Well, just choose some place then. It doesn't matter to me.
F1: I chose last time. It's your turn.
F2: Did you? I thought I chose last time. We had Chinese, remember?
F1: Are you sure? I thought I chose the Chinese.
F2: Oh. Yes. You're right. That was your choice. Hmmm ...
F1: (sigh) So, where do you want to go?

Etc. And this kind of discussion can continue for quite some time with two Fs. When it comes to more serious problems that need solving, it can be even harder for two Fs to make a decision, not because they disagree, usually, but rather because they both intuitively know that they stink at T, so they'd rather defer to their partner. Theoretically, duality cures this problem, but it makes me wonder how well an identity relationship would work. I suspect the pair would need to clearly define and split up T duties. The Fjs would, in any event. No clue what the Fps might do.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,447
MBTI Type
*NF*
Enneagram
852
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Therefore the partners always find what the other partner is thinking interesting. Usually partners quickly realise that they are very like-minded.
Mirror partners are often very good friends.

Totally true.

:wubbie:Mirror relationship
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,447
MBTI Type
*NF*
Enneagram
852
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
When the Benefactor is in a superior position to the Beneficiary, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!

:rofl1::devil: I don't understand those schemes of "right ring and left ring" in "supervision" and "benefit".

Who wanna explain ?:unsure:
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have no issues with identity relationships. I did read up on where the pitfalls are and i disagree and/or could careless about that. They say we are only good until we reach the same level and then get bored...as if its a tatic picture that we dont learn outside of our partner. Or we ave had the same life and therefore have the same judgement. Just becauuse i am Ti and some one else is Ti we have different bodies, knowledge, experience, likes, dislikes, etc that we wont always agree on everything or come to the same conclusion. We just go about life in a similiar fashion. Just because i may agree it makes sense doesnt mean i will do the same thing or come to the same action.

I can imagine an identity relationship being boring for many people, but I can't actually recall the last time I was bored. As I posted elsewhere:

Strange, but I really can't grasp the concept of boredom. I suppose I don't experience it the way others do. I always have something I should be doing, and if I'm not doing one of those things, I am certainly doing something else (if for no other reason than to distract myself from what I should be doing).

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...nfp-enfj-infj-/82492-bored-2.html#post2631761

Honestly, I couldn't imagine being bored with another ENFj. We're known for "reincarnating" ourselves fairly regularly--very dynamic mental loop, lots of changes, even complete changes in worldview over time, much like Anakin Skywalker--Jedi, Sith, and then back to Jedi.

Evidence supports your suggestion that introverts may react differently to an identity relationship. In fact, the essay to which I linked in the OP shows some very interesting trends that relate to the E/I axis' effect on the likelihood and success rates of various relationship types.

Thanks for the response. :cheers:
 

Typh0n

clever fool
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
3,497
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Are you asking only romantic relationships? [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]
 

ZNP-TBA

Privileged Sh!tlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
3,001
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
I only socialize if there's free food or drinks or if I'm getting paid to, so I don't know how this is going to work.

Mind blowing sex
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Mind blowing sex

Silly, N. Muscle blown sex. When its so strong you fall over when you stand up because your body gives out. So fun to play with a womans muscle contractions and spasms.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
2,240
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
That's very interesting. I think I have accurately typed about 27 people that I have known personally for over two years, but I have yet to identify and type an ESTp (SLE, Beta). It's one of only three Sociotypes of whom I know no members--the other two being ISFp (SEI, Alpha) and, of course, my dual, ISTj (LSI, Beta). I'll have to be on the lookout for the behavior you describe to see whether I actually know any ESTps. My strategy is to type specific people I know very well and then look for similarities. If I know someone who's definitely an ENFp (EII, Delta), then it's easier to identify others of that Sociotype by asking, "Is X person more like the ENFps I know or more like the ENFjs I know?" Ultimately, I appreciate your providing a perception and description of ESTp that will help me identify one in the future.

Oh, hey, when I say ESTP, I mean Myers Briggs ESTP (or socionics ESTj), and not Myers Briggs ESTJ (or socionics ESTp). Sorry about that. I shouldn't be using MBTI terms for Socionics discussions.

Anyways, ESTP's really listen for the meat of the conversation. Something like this -

ESTP: How's work going?
INFP: *tells funny little story & says funny things*
ESTP: Okay, here's what you got to do.
INFP: OOOooooh.

ESTP's seem to have a linear thought process, ime. It goes - identify problem in situation, and then submit plan of action.

My INTP and I still do that 'what do you want to eat?' crap.
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
5,711
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Rereading socionics LSI descriptions, I see no possibility that I would find such appealling.

A ENFj ENFj pairing, yes. But this definitely one where I doubt any ENFj male would enjoy a ISTj female. It just seems like a flaw in the model.....
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
We're excellent actors--natural performers. The Socionics theorists use the archtype "Hamlet" to describe us.

While we can and do appear to others exactly as you describe, underneath something else entirely is going on.

That's just my experience, however. I typed myself for years as an INTj. LOL. I can look like that when I want to, and that's what most people see, but that IS NOT who I really am. For years I had to hide what I really was in order to be socially acceptable. No longer!

:Fe: :Ni: is raw emotional, ethical power. I say, embrace it!

Edited to add: Of course it also means this, as I have argued numerous times in this venue:

:Fe: :Ni: = :wacko:


:happy2:

Ha. I don't believe it has to be one or the other. I have a strong emotional undercurrent but that doesn't mean I feel all that compelled to let it hang loose. I don't actually perceive myself to be acting. Part of me is naturally level-headed and even-keeled (that's what my ENFJ friend actually likes about me on top of understanding his thought process... I ground him mixed w/ empathy) and another part is highly emotional. I have been training myself to use both in concert and I am much happier for it. I have met so many EXFJs who just make willy nilly impulsive decisions based on emotions that I got so sick and tired dealing with the aftermath.
 

Typh0n

clever fool
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
3,497
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Rereading socionics LSI descriptions, I see no possibility that I would find such appealling.

A ENFj ENFj pairing, yes. But this definitely one where I doubt any ENFj male would enjoy a ISTj female. It just seems like a flaw in the model.....

Its not about which type you find appealing. Personal attraction has nothing to do with compatibility.
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
5,711
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Its not about which type you find appealing. Personal attraction has nothing to do with compatibility.

Lol. Again, I find it flawed because of sex differences. It is about compatibility issues. I am not compatible with emotionally obtuse folks. My father is a ISTJ and to say it is a good relationship and such is to ignore reality.

So, my ISTJ BIL is married to a ENFJ. She often struggles with his emotional limitations, to put it mildly.
 

Typh0n

clever fool
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
3,497
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Lol. Again, I find it flawed because of sex differences. It is about compatibility issues. I am not compatible with emotionally obtuse folks. My father is a ISTJ and to say it is a good relationship and such is to ignore reality.

So, my ISTJ BIL is married to a ENFJ. She often struggles with his emotional limitations, to put it mildly.

I mean, compatibility in this context (socionics). Yes, there are other factors that influence relationships, noone is denying that.

Also, ISTJ in MBTI does not necessarily equate to LSI, it could be LSI, SLI, or even something else.

I think that LSIs of the Ti subtype express little or no emotion. My uncle is a Ti LSI. His wife (ESE) pushes him to express emotion, and once asked him if he ever felt something other then just " I'm content, I'm not content". And he said no he does not. But they get along really well (semi-dual). She deals with people concerns, society, public relations, stuff like that in their hosuehold, whereas he deals with everything technical.

SLIs express little emotion as well. Do you think your father may be SLI? Though personally, I would call SLIs a bit "off" in their emotions, in that their emotions correspond only to things like food and drink, where LSI are more "dense" in that they are less emotionally expressive overrall.

Though maybe you are right, socionics theory may be completely off and innacurate, I just wanted to make sure you understood it before rejecting it.
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Are you asking only romantic relationships? [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]

Yes, actually. Feel free to describe non-romantic relationships too. We can all glean useful information from that, but my primary interest, as always, is what I consider to be the most important things that people do--i.e. loving, lasting, romantic relationships.
 

Firebird 8118

DJ Phoenix
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
3,134
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
279
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yep - my ex was an INFP, and my best friend is also an INFP. :D

With my ex, it was an almost-perfect union... the only problem was, we each had our own trust issues, which ultimately was the downfall of our relationship. Also, I still wish I could tell him that my family wouldn't have accepted him NOT because he was British and I'm Indian (by birth, that is), but because they don't trust my online interactions with anyone. It would have been all on me...

As for my best friend - we get along well with each other for the most part, until one or both of us gets upset. Then we argue like hell, until he gets so angry that I cave in and apologize first. But other than that, we understand each other well, and he's one of the few people in my life so far who have treated me like an adult. :D
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
When the Benefactor is in a superior position to the Beneficiary, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!

:rofl1::devil: I don't understand those schemes of "right ring and left ring" in "supervision" and "benefit".

Who wanna explain ?:unsure:

I once thought my relationship with [MENTION=26289]Silent[/MENTION] was one of supervision (her being the supervisor and me being the supervisee), but I now think that assessment was incorrect. [MENTION=26289]Silent[/MENTION] and I have a mirage/illusionary relationship.

That said, I can still give you some insight into what the supervision relationship looks and feels like, here: Finally Understanding (02-12-16)
 

Kheledon

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
572
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
136
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Oh, hey, when I say ESTP, I mean Myers Briggs ESTP (or socionics ESTj), and not Myers Briggs ESTJ (or socionics ESTp). Sorry about that. I shouldn't be using MBTI terms for Socionics discussions.

Anyways, ESTP's really listen for the meat of the conversation. Something like this -

ESTP: How's work going?
INFP: *tells funny little story & says funny things*
ESTP: Okay, here's what you got to do.
INFP: OOOooooh.

ESTP's seem to have a linear thought process, ime. It goes - identify problem in situation, and then submit plan of action.

My INTP and I still do that 'what do you want to eat?' crap.

My understanding is that extraverts convert directly from M/B typology into Socionics typology, i.e. ENTP in M/B = ENTp in Socionics. It's the introverts who may (or may not) flip on the j/p axis depending on whether they lead with their strongest, introverted, rational function (in which case they're Js) or their strongest, introverted, irrational function (in which case they're Ps). That can be tricky to determine, but it can be done using quadra values and Reinin dichotomies.

Or, so I understand. :shrug:
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I don't think I'd do well with another SEI.
 

Typh0n

clever fool
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
3,497
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The only types I've been in romantic relationships with : SEE, LSI, IEI.

SEE was the most fullfilling while LSI was the most long-lasting, but it was actaully over from the beginning since she decided to lie...
 
Top