• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Question about socionics types vs MBTI types (+ Type Me questionaire)

Hawthorne

corona
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
1,946
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I get the impression that Socionics types and MBTI types don't always match up. I'm guessing this has to do with differing definitions for the functions/information elements? Is there a standard POV about whether they should and the consequences of them not doing so?

Secondarily, I'd like some insight into my own socionics type. I'd like to use it as a starting point for my own research into this system. I answered this questionnaire through the blood and tears caused by the pain of having to do yet another questionnaire.
.
.
.
Personal concepts
1. What is beauty? What is love?
I don't have strong opinions on either of these concepts. Beauty is whatever pleases the individual. Love has too much social baggage to bother trying to define. Regardless, I'm sure it's also dependent on the individual.

2. What are your most important values?
Try to live life to the fullest. Getting stuck in the muck prohibits that. Keep looking forward. Keep moving forward. Break enough things to keep it interesting but not cause too many problems.

3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
Nope. At the moment, I'm at peace with the absurdity of my existence and feel no reason to leap away from it.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
No opinion on war and the military. Probably inefficient and I'm sure there are some human rights violations but I'm not equipped with the background knowledge to form a strong opinion, let alone lobby for it.

Ideally, power would be complete control over one's destiny. Unfortunately, that answer probably slingshots into an epistemological discussion I'm not fully prepared to have.

Interests
5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
My longest conversations are with other people about themselves. My interests are other people. I enjoy the process of learning them.

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
Yes because it's my career path. I focus on my body to the extent that I want to feel and look good and engage in behaviors that facilitate that.

7. What do you think of daily chores?
Often boring but often necessary. The optimal place is somewhere between order and chaos, not at the extremes.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
The last book I remember enjoying was "The Antidote". It's partially a deconstruction of the "positive thinking" self-help movement and partially a memoir of the author's own self-help journey. I was interested in its analysis of blind optimism: its effects on people's reasoning, and the discussion on why some are more likely to endorse it than others.
The last film I liked...was probably "The Flight". About an irresponsible, alcoholic, drug-using pilot who miraculously lands a commercial plane. He becomes hero and then a toxicology
report happens. I like stories where the hero and the villian are often the same person.

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
Frustration for the first. Surprise for the second. I really, really dislike disappointment (both causing and being caused).
The second is harder to explain. I'd say that 90% of the time, I'm stuck in a state of boredom. I feel sluggish and only half awake. The other 10% of the time, something unexpected enough happens that "wakes me up" and makes me excited and I really like that feeling.

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
I don't have an answer for this. Not a solid one, anyway.

Evaluation & Behaviour
11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
I don't keep in touch well. I'm not very approachable at first. When I'm in bad moods I can be unneccesarily cruel. I dislike all of those things as well.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
I don't hold on to baggage. I have a "live and let live" outlook. I believe that I have the capacity to be very loyal and affectionate but just haven't found anyone or anything worth the investment.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
More willpower and discipline.

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Turning inwards. It slows me down and makes me careless. Dark spiral. Eventually I get sick of myself, forcefully shut down those thoughts, and focus on other things for a little while.

People & Interactions
15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I enjoy people who play with their dark. I enjoy people who dance to their own drum. I like being invited to dance along with them.
I dislike people who overvalue themselves and their opinions.
I get along with most people. At first, anyway.

16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
Over romanticized (har). Someone who wants to be learned and who wants to learn me.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
I don't like children but to play along, the values I'd choose to pygamilion into them would be independence, a fondness for self-learning, and the strategic use of tact and honesty. I'd do my best not to tell them what to think. I'd also try to avoid feeding them white lies to shield them from a harsh truth. I think children are more resilent than we give them credit for.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Inwardly...I don't know? I'd probably recoil a little bit? I'm sure I'd feel disappointed but whether or not I grudge-judge them for it would depend on what exactly they said and their reasons for believing it. I'd probably ask them a couple of "innocent" questions before making that decision.

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
I don't pay attention. I have a negative opinion of the mindsets that tend to develop within groups and the behaviors that become permissable because of them. I'm extremely sensitive to that for some reason. I consider the source of all social problems to be selfishness. On some level it disgusts me but I also recognize the hypocrisy of that disgust.

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
How they react to what I share. If I like it, I'll thaw more. If I don't, I'll distance.

21. How do you behave around strangers?
I ignore them unless I find them interesting or it's important for me not to.
 

wolfnara

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
508
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think one of the differences between MBTI and socionics is the J/P axis. For extroverts it usually stays the same, but for introverts it is likely to switch. ILE/ENTp is most likely if you are an ENTP, whereas LII/INTj is most similar to INTP.

The function descriptions is slightly different between Jung and Socionics too. I am new to socionics so I don't have much opinions regarding your questionnaire, so hopefully I can bump this thread instead. Your writing is quite figurative which gives me an N vibe. Based of answers like 14. I also agree with Exxx. For your MBTI type I would agree with ENTP.
 

Hawthorne

corona
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
1,946
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I think one of the differences between MBTI and socionics is the J/P axis. For extroverts it usually stays the same, but for introverts it is likely to switch. ILE/ENTp is most likely if you are an ENTP, whereas LII/INTj is most similar to INTP.

The function descriptions is slightly different between Jung and Socionics too. I am new to socionics so I don't have much opinions regarding your questionnaire, so hopefully I can bump this thread instead. Your writing is quite figurative which gives me an N vibe. Based of answers like 14. I also agree with Exxx. For your MBTI type I would agree with ENTP.

I've noticed the J/P axis switch too and the way the function line up seem a little different as well. The non-dominant orientation looks like it's sandwiched between the dominant one (Te Ni Fi Se as LIE-ENTj for example). I'm curious about the "why" behind that.

Thanks for the MBTI +1.

Also, bump.
 

Bush

cute lil war dog
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
5,182
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I get the impression that Socionics types and MBTI types don't always match up. I'm guessing this has to do with differing definitions for the functions/information elements? Is there a standard POV about whether they should and the consequences of them not doing so?
They don't always necessarily match up, no. While there are other factors in play, the IM/function definitions are a major player. How someone can equate, say, Si one-to-one with :Si:, as both are usually defined and used, I'll never know.

It's almost as if Myers and Augusta both happened to define systems with 16 types, but they chopped up the personality-space somewhat differently.

The consequences of this suggest that there's not (yet?) a universal approach to type. Same (or similar) phenomenon, different perspectives.


I throw this out there for the lions, but I'm not in the den myself: If Jungian typology is "true," then the two systems might merge together to form a "grand unified theory" of types. Both systems would contain some amount of truth, some stuff would be discarded, other stuff modified.
 

Hawthorne

corona
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
1,946
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
There seems to be a lack of socionics gurus in this forum. Unfortunate.

[MENTION=22264]jscrothers[/MENTION] I couldn't even begin to think of a way to assess the truthfulness of any personality system trying to address subconscious motivations. I imagine that's the reason behavioral assessments and models are preferred in empirical minded circles but that's hardly as interesting to play with, right?
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
271
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
There seems to be a lack of socionics gurus in this forum. Unfortunate.

Did someone ask for a socionics guru?

Right, there are a number of reasons for why the types don't match up.

The most commonly given reason is the aforementioned J/P switch, although this difference is largely trivial and wrongly implies you can fix the problem by simply making INTJs the same as ILI-INTp etc.

So, although this is one cause, it is not a significant one, just one that is visually blatant and confusing for people. The reason why it happened at all is because socionists and the Myers-Briggs duo had different ideas as to what constituted a Judger. Isabel Briggs-Myers thought that a Judger was someone whose Judging function was Extroverted, because her system puts a strange emphasis on external behaviours, despite also claiming to be a purely cognitive model. As such, being a Judger in MBTI meant 'showing your Judging' by organising your surroundings with Fe or Te, regardless of it being in the dominant or auxiliary position.

In comparison, Aushra Augusta thought that a Judger (or schizotyme or rational type) was someone who, for every block (pair of functions) in their psyche, had the Rational IME come first and set ones motivations and tasks, rather than come second and find a way to fulfil the motivation or task (i.e. was the Accepting function, rather than the Producing function). For every block pair of IMEs, the Accepting function calls the shots and the Producing function assists. When we think of the most important block pair, we think of the top block i.e. the Ego, which for an ILI-INTp would be Ni and Te. As Irrational Ni is first in the Ego, it is the Accepting function, while Rational Te, as second in the Ego, is the Producing function (the same can be seen for how the other blocks in the ILI's psyche are prioritised: Si>Fe, Se>Fi and Ne>Ti). For this reason, all of the ILI's Rational functions are Accepting, and all of the ILE's Irrational functions are Producing. As such, the ILI in Socionics is not a 'Judger' type, but a 'Perceiver' type, while INTJ in MBTI would say the opposite.

Now, other reasons why the types don't match up fall into two kinds: definitional and circumstantial

Definitional reasons are to do with how the cognitive functions (and other dichotomies) are defined, relative to Socionics IMEs. It is apparent that some are more similar e.g. Ne while others are very different e.g. Si and Se. Furthermore, like with J/P, Socionics has different ideas as to what each of the other dichotomies mean. For instance, Extroverts in Socionics are not simply 'sociable' or 'energised around people', but more active and dynamic in general, regardless of the people element. As such, you may find a number of INTJs in MBTI being LIE-ENTj in Socionics, because although not people people, they are still too dynamic and breadth-focused to be Introverts in the system. As such, you will get variations in terms of which type in Socionics is truly the best fit for which type in MBTI. Certainly this spoils any hopes of a one-to-one correlation.


Circumstantial reasons are to do with the inconsistent perceptions that people have with each of the MBTI types, due to a variety of different descriptions of the types in profiles, as well as disagreements over what the different functions and their placements mean between MBTI people. Some follow Lenore Thompson-Bentz, whose definitions are rather different from the commonly recognised definitions on pop-psychology websites. Others follow Keirsey and deny cognitive functions in favour of just the dichotomies and his temperaments. Making ENTPs more NT than Ne-leading and thus changing the essence of our understanding. Furthermore, tests are inaccurate a lot of the time and many people are likely to believe their type from this unrealiable method. As such, there are a range of different, inconsistent reasons for why someone might identifies as a certain MBTI type, meaning that the transition to Socionics is even more chaotic.

Let me know if you want me to explain more on the points I have made.


As for the answers to the questions, ILI seems like it could be right for you, especially how you define power in terms of independence and self-control, how you clearly delineate what is not worth discussing and how you seem to desire greater willpower and motivation from the more decisive energy of others.

Check the profile for ILI here and see if you relate: World Socionics: Description of Intuitive Logical Integrator (ILI)
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I didn't want to believe that I always sounded doom and gloom. As was described by [MENTION=23846]Researcher[/MENTION] too. INTJs get cold when angered.

[MENTION=5759]edchidna1000[/MENTION]'s link also explains why the ILI can sound short sighted, World Socionics: Description of Intuitive Logical Integrator (ILI)

Frequently, ILIs may feel that they have a responsibility to inform people of these dangers, especially if they may affect the world at large. As such, ILIs regularly come across as critics and augurs for the consequences of foolishness, putting themselves between the short-sighted and the damage they might wreak for years to come.

Because that goes against the stereo type of what people think an Ni should be like. They should always be far thinking, reaching. according to the stereo type.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
271
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I didn't want to believe that I always sounded doom and gloom. As was described by [MENTION=23846]Researcher[/MENTION] too. INTJs get cold when angered.

[MENTION=5759]edchidna1000[/MENTION]'s link also explains why the ILI can sound short sighted, World Socionics: Description of Intuitive Logical Integrator (ILI)



Because that goes against the stereo type of what people think an Ni should be like. They should always be far thinking, reaching. according to the stereo type.

Yes, it is for this reason that some Ne-valuing types misinterpret what ILIs are saying and think they are being narrow-minded traditionalists, when really they are looking ahead based on past trends and have a good, well-considered reason why the next frenzied exploit is a bad idea. I've found a number of people who score ISTJ in MBTI tests be ILI in Socionics.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
271
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I throw this out there for the lions, but I'm not in the den myself: If Jungian typology is "true," then the two systems might merge together to form a "grand unified theory" of types. Both systems would contain some amount of truth, some stuff would be discarded, other stuff modified.

I do think there will be some kind of integration sooner or later. However, I believe it will be largely one-sided towards Socionics. MBTI simply doesn't have much to offer to Socionics.
 
Top