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Societies dominated by Specific Quadra

Alea_iacta_est

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A list of societies that represent the ideologies of the 4 Quadra. Feel free to add some or question some, these are just some starters.

Alpha - (+Ne, +Si, -Fe, -Ti)
Japan
Jamaica (?)

Beta - (+Fe, +Ti, -Se, -Ni)
Nazi Germany
United States

Gamma - (+Ni, +Se, -Te, -Fi)
Soviet Union
Imperial Japan

Delta - (+Te, +Fi, -Si, -Ne)
Germany
Australia
 

entropie

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Did know there were other things than Alpha
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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A list of societies that represent the ideologies of the 4 Quadra. Feel free to add some or question some, these are just some starters.

Alpha - (+Ne, +Si, -Fe, -Ti)
Japan
Jamaica (?)

Beta - (+Fe, +Ti, -Se, -Ni)
Nazi Germany
United States

Gamma - (+Ni, +Se, -Te, -Fi)
Soviet Union
Imperial Japan

Delta - (+Te, +Fi, -Si, -Ne)
Germany
Australia


I'd mostly like to know what your justifications are for Beta and Gamma.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I'd mostly like to know what your justifications are for Beta and Gamma.

Nazi Germany is highly Beta, +Fe +Ti is almost assured with its emphasis on defining objective ethics (who is in the right, who is wrong, what society or government values in people) based on the decrees of the nation-state, along with the rigidity and symmetrical logic applied to rationalize and justify +Fe judgement (attempting to use knowledge and systems to prove that the German race was superior). Add that to the -Ni idealism and -Se minimization of weakness and you have an extremely unhealthy Beta Quadra ruled State. (The German Scientists operating under the state, however, heavily embodied Gamma Quadra traits)

The United States is nowhere near as Beta as Nazi Germany, and it is somewhat similar to Delta Quadra as well, but it still embodies the same mechanisms, "good" is primarily defined by American Society, where those who go against the tide are often shamed by the public (subdued Fi can be indicative of intolerance when it is rooted primarily in the collective) and arguments for political parties are usually built around objective ethics defining certain issues as right or wrong with sporadic defenses from a priori logical arguments to resolve them. To be fair, however, the Republican Party is more Delta/Gamma while the Democratic Party is more Alpha/Beta, so it primarily depends on who is running the nation at the time.

The Gamma Quadra selections are based heavily on the prominent feature of the Quadra, which is the theme of sacrifice for the greater good or ulterior endgame. The Soviet Union illustrates this with the heavily -Te communist government (survive with as few resources as possible), where the agricultural industry had to survive on a small fraction of their product while the government seized the majority of the product so that it could be evenly distributed and benefit all of society. This, in addition to the +Se of projecting an incredibly strong image and showing absolutely no weaknesses, illustrates the Gamma qualities of the Soviet Union. Imperial Japan illustrates this with their war tactics of sacrificing themselves for their nation (through several suicidal methods) and -Te ingenuity under pressure, where the Japanese would deploy extremely creative tactics with the resources they could scavenge, in complete cooperation with +Se of resisting the enemy at all costs and attempting to outlast the enemies in battles that would rage for days. In fact, the unwillingness to surrender created by the +Se and -Fi of the government caused their ultimate loss, their clutching to standing strong until it was impossible to fight.
 

sulfit

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Japan is mostly Delta - group work, politeness, propriety: Fi valuing aristocracy - with some Alpha off-shoots.

Britain mostly Delta with Gamma off-shoots. I've seen the entire royal family being typed as Delta starting from the Queen as Ne-EII.

America while it was founded by Deltas (Puritans, George Washington - ESTj) it has very strong Gamma influence (free markets, super-sizing things, action movies that advertise physical size and strength: Te/Se valuing).

Beta - most of the Eastern European block, Russian Federation, Ukraine, Belarus. Many of their key political figures are Beta STs. The distrust and misunderstanding they experience with the West is based on differences of Ti/Te and Fi/Fe values.

Middle East - mixed political arena between Betas, Gammas, and Deltas. There are radical religious elements that have Delta values of eliminating all vices to create a godly society present along side with Beta strong handed approach and Gamma political maneuvering.

China - Beta/Gamma mix. Unlike the Eastern European block they have been able to integrate the Gamma segment of their population into the dominant Beta one to achieve a Communist-run Capitalist society.
 

FDG

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Soviet Russia can't be gamma because it wasn't a "democratic" society where people were free to do whatevert the wanted as long as they were not infringing someone else's rights (*). It was a society with a very strong control over the media.


(*) Notice how this characteristic is given by the presence of positivist-extraverts in democratic quadras (alpha and gamma) as opposed to negativist-extraverts in aristocratic quadras.
 

Elfboy

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A list of societies that represent the ideologies of the 4 Quadra. Feel free to add some or question some, these are just some starters.
Alpha - (+Ne, +Si, -Fe, -Ti)
Japan
Jamaica (?)
Beta - (+Fe, +Ti, -Se, -Ni)
Nazi Germany
United States
Gamma - (+Ni, +Se, -Te, -Fi)
Soviet Union
Imperial Japan
Delta - (+Te, +Fi, -Si, -Ne)
Germany
Australia

1) Japan is Delta as fuck
2) for the United States, it depends on the subculture (though I suppose this is always the case, it's just that, it being my home country, I'm more aware of the differences). hip-hop culture, corporate culture and jock/cheerleader culture (and subsequently frat/soro culture) are all very Beta (corporate culture is also Gamma), but left wing culture in general seems more Delta (which sometimes tries to be Alpha). for Alpha, I would say more of the EU in general (could be wrong here) and various Latin American countries.
 

Thalassa

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I agree with Lord Of Elves that Japan seems extremely Delta and sulfit that the United States is more Gamma...corporate America on the Ni Te side and Hollywood/food/attitude towards sex on the Se Fi side. Remember, Fi Se types can even be moralistic Bible thumpers in the right context, just as much as they can be sensual or pleasantly humorous in another.

I agree that the United States is so diverse though it's hard to assign one type really, there are so many subcultures...but you know, it's pretty much mainstream like the Money Power Glory song by LDR, very Gamma, she was named the perfect reflection of modern day America as a popular artist by I believe it was Salon.com...all hail queen Lana ;)
 

sulfit

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Barack Obama is commonly typed as Fi-ISFj in Socionics, and both Bushes as ESTjs. So yeah, US culture is dominated by values of Te/Fi quadra.
 

boomslang

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USA is Te/Fi, slightly more Gamma than Delta, but the country itself is divided into so many smaller states, so it makes it harder for a uniform quadra value to shine through.

Russia I'd argue is actually Beta. They have that "things are illegal, but if you want them enough, take them" sort of idea going on.

Australia is certainly Delta, though in a different way to Mother England. I'd say Australia is Delta Irrational and England is Delta Rational. I read a page that said Australia's official type as an entire country would be SLI, I'm inclined to agree. A lot of people have a SLI flavour, even non-SLIs.
 

vorfreude

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Interesting concept.
Never thought of anything in terms of quadras before...
 

nanook

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you are bound to confuse stages of development with typological aspects, if you look at countries.

contemporary stages are: impulsive stage becomes conformist stage becomes rational state becomes pluralist stage.

stages integrate prior stages, so the higher a country develops, the more stages you see inside.
all individuals are born at stage zero, nobody can skip stages, many individuals don't progress through all possible stages.
a country may have a leading stage but the ability of the whole population to fit into this shoe is always limited.
countries are bound to be divided in that way.

when you associate group-thinking with japan, you have the conformist stage in mind, which is very strong in japan.
it's like comparing japan (being a mafia like structure) to old england (being a monarchy like structure), both (partially) conformist structures. by old i mean perhaps 1800-1900.
russia is still very close to the same altitude. but in japan, you can also see alot of rationality today.
this is similar to germany after the war and prior to the late 60ies.
of course germany hasn't lost rationality, but now it also has pluralism, like america. in japan, pluralism is still weak and treated like a goofball.
nazi-germany was a good mix of impulsive and conformist, using rational methodologies.

in america you are bound to see several stages, the impulsive stage (imperialism against other countries), conformism (puritan religious conservatism, bible belt), rationality (land corrupted by corporations), pluralism (democratic values)

australia has strong waves of the impulsive stage and the rational stage. conformism and pluralism are weak. ( i don't really know australia though, might be wrong )

none of this has to do with functions. frankly i would rather agree that you can associate countries with enneagram types, than with cognitive functions.

i don't want to get too deep into quasi-racism, but perhaps japanese people have stronger perceptive abilities, due to their odd sign language.

and i could see how there are waves of inclusion and suppression of intuition.
intuition does show up in impulsive warrior mythology, in conformist religious mythology, in rational abilities and goals, in pluralist idealism and concepts of transformation.
nevertheless impulsive stages might suppress intuition in favor of sensation, conformist stages might suppress it in favor of feeling, rational stages in favour of thinking, pluralist stages in favor or feeling.
intuition appears to be a bit of a minority view, except insofar it exists as a shadow. It can easily be overpowered by any sentiment of any other function.
pre-impulsive stages (magic + instinctive) may have had the least judgement, so sensation and intuition might have been dominant.

i must say that korea seems rather imaginative from a distance, so did nazi germany, so did the maja culture and perhaps some extremely religious cultures like tibet and india.
these might be examples of countries that do not suppress intuition as much as other countries.


when i say impulsive, i mean what is labeled power/red in the graphic below. amber is conformist, rational orange, pluralist=sensitive=green

AQALchart10-72.jpg



if you feel that a cognitive function correlates with a stage, this is mostlikely a projection of how evolved this function is in you or the people you may know best.

functions are lines of intelligence which evolve through all stages.

ever heard of inferior functions? that is a stage concept, albeit not verry detailed. carl jung describes three stages of development for every type, without spelling it out like that, he uses paragraphs and sequence to describe them, but since he never mentions the concept of stages it may read like he is speaking of subtypes.

to say that a function is a line that has stages may be a bit of a crude simplification, because stages may also have something to do, with how efficiently functions work together.

anyhow, american socialism (democrats), which is pluralism, has a pluralist stage of Fe printed on it's persona/face/image (we can haz change pleaze), the conformist stage of japan, along with conservative america has a conformist stage of Fe on it's persona (we stand together united against hardships and those who won't join us), the ISIS may have an impulsive stage of Fe on it's persona (we conquer the world). but none of them can be reduced to Fe. it's just that the job of Fe is the job of projecting a collective persona for everyone to see. other functions contribute to other aspects of such communities. likewise thinking exists on all stages, there are conquering strategies, there is theology, there is science and there are social sciences. likewise feeling exists on all of these stages, it's brave, it's well meaning, it's considerate and it's connecting.

every country has principles (Ti) and priorities (Te) and core values (Fi) and visions (Ni) and most countries do some exploring and growing (Ne) and they certainly do all kinds of hard work (S).
 
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Cygnus

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I'd agree with Beta US and Gamma USSR, though I also vote Japan for Delta.

I'd like to see the rationale behind Delta Germany.
 

Geonat

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Thank you nanook for posting this.
We obviously still have a very long way to go.
Here is a good time and place to start.
This was refreshing.
 

Geonat

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Perhaps an analogy could be useful for remembering.
Sometimes we're just lonely particles, unconscious matter.
Positive unassuming atomic alphas, energetic attractive/repulsive beta particles depending on sign (opposites attract) and invisible gamma rays penetrating everything without even asking (and on a larger scale responsible of mutations).

Sometimes dead matter collide, but no harm is done - there is no inner structure that can be damaged.
And sometimes were atoms or larger structures with rich inner lives, constantly interacting with other atoms and being bombarded by dead unconscious matter.

But where do all these bombarding lonely particles come from? Well we just have to reverse time, they are the products of an atom broken in two.
Naturally a chain reaction can easily be formed from all these fission processes. Luckily there is usually plenty of neutrons around - stabilizing the process, absorbing.
We just have to find our role in all this.
It's just the universe becoming aware of itself. So that it may prevent itself from self-harm.
 

entropie

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I bet you are afraid of societies dominated by something
 

Geonat

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Of course.

If there is still any doubt:
Education is the solution.
Not violence.
 
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