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  1. #11
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Sep 2014


    As an Aussie, I'm in my element

  2. #12
    Junior Member vorfreude's Avatar
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    Sep 2014
    974 sp/sx
    IEE Fi


    Interesting concept.
    Never thought of anything in terms of quadras before...
    "2 ams were made for poets, lovers, writers, visionaries, photographers, painters, overthinkers, silent seekers. These are my favorite hours." - anon

    "If you do something out of duty, it will deplete you, but if you do something out of love, it will energize you." - anon

    "Children are not things to be moulded, but people to be unfolded" - Jess Lair

  3. #13
    Senior Member
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    May 2014


    The theory implies some sort of progression Socionics - - The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings.

    Is anyone capable of seeing the long term trends?
    Where is Europe and US heading for example?
    Europe from Alpha to Beta?
    US from Beta to Gamma?
    Inner tension and outer pressure is obvious, that's for sure...

  4. #14
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007


    you are bound to confuse stages of development with typological aspects, if you look at countries.

    contemporary stages are: impulsive stage becomes conformist stage becomes rational state becomes pluralist stage.

    stages integrate prior stages, so the higher a country develops, the more stages you see inside.
    all individuals are born at stage zero, nobody can skip stages, many individuals don't progress through all possible stages.
    a country may have a leading stage but the ability of the whole population to fit into this shoe is always limited.
    countries are bound to be divided in that way.

    when you associate group-thinking with japan, you have the conformist stage in mind, which is very strong in japan.
    it's like comparing japan (being a mafia like structure) to old england (being a monarchy like structure), both (partially) conformist structures. by old i mean perhaps 1800-1900.
    russia is still very close to the same altitude. but in japan, you can also see alot of rationality today.
    this is similar to germany after the war and prior to the late 60ies.
    of course germany hasn't lost rationality, but now it also has pluralism, like america. in japan, pluralism is still weak and treated like a goofball.
    nazi-germany was a good mix of impulsive and conformist, using rational methodologies.

    in america you are bound to see several stages, the impulsive stage (imperialism against other countries), conformism (puritan religious conservatism, bible belt), rationality (land corrupted by corporations), pluralism (democratic values)

    australia has strong waves of the impulsive stage and the rational stage. conformism and pluralism are weak. ( i don't really know australia though, might be wrong )

    none of this has to do with functions. frankly i would rather agree that you can associate countries with enneagram types, than with cognitive functions.

    i don't want to get too deep into quasi-racism, but perhaps japanese people have stronger perceptive abilities, due to their odd sign language.

    and i could see how there are waves of inclusion and suppression of intuition.
    intuition does show up in impulsive warrior mythology, in conformist religious mythology, in rational abilities and goals, in pluralist idealism and concepts of transformation.
    nevertheless impulsive stages might suppress intuition in favor of sensation, conformist stages might suppress it in favor of feeling, rational stages in favour of thinking, pluralist stages in favor or feeling.
    intuition appears to be a bit of a minority view, except insofar it exists as a shadow. It can easily be overpowered by any sentiment of any other function.
    pre-impulsive stages (magic + instinctive) may have had the least judgement, so sensation and intuition might have been dominant.

    i must say that korea seems rather imaginative from a distance, so did nazi germany, so did the maja culture and perhaps some extremely religious cultures like tibet and india.
    these might be examples of countries that do not suppress intuition as much as other countries.

    when i say impulsive, i mean what is labeled power/red in the graphic below. amber is conformist, rational orange, pluralist=sensitive=green

    if you feel that a cognitive function correlates with a stage, this is mostlikely a projection of how evolved this function is in you or the people you may know best.

    functions are lines of intelligence which evolve through all stages.

    ever heard of inferior functions? that is a stage concept, albeit not verry detailed. carl jung describes three stages of development for every type, without spelling it out like that, he uses paragraphs and sequence to describe them, but since he never mentions the concept of stages it may read like he is speaking of subtypes.

    to say that a function is a line that has stages may be a bit of a crude simplification, because stages may also have something to do, with how efficiently functions work together.

    anyhow, american socialism (democrats), which is pluralism, has a pluralist stage of Fe printed on it's persona/face/image (we can haz change pleaze), the conformist stage of japan, along with conservative america has a conformist stage of Fe on it's persona (we stand together united against hardships and those who won't join us), the ISIS may have an impulsive stage of Fe on it's persona (we conquer the world). but none of them can be reduced to Fe. it's just that the job of Fe is the job of projecting a collective persona for everyone to see. other functions contribute to other aspects of such communities. likewise thinking exists on all stages, there are conquering strategies, there is theology, there is science and there are social sciences. likewise feeling exists on all of these stages, it's brave, it's well meaning, it's considerate and it's connecting.

    every country has principles (Ti) and priorities (Te) and core values (Fi) and visions (Ni) and most countries do some exploring and growing (Ne) and they certainly do all kinds of hard work (S).

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014


    I'd agree with Beta US and Gamma USSR, though I also vote Japan for Delta.

    I'd like to see the rationale behind Delta Germany.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014


    Thank you nanook for posting this.
    We obviously still have a very long way to go.
    Here is a good time and place to start.
    This was refreshing.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014


    Perhaps an analogy could be useful for remembering.
    Sometimes we're just lonely particles, unconscious matter.
    Positive unassuming atomic alphas, energetic attractive/repulsive beta particles depending on sign (opposites attract) and invisible gamma rays penetrating everything without even asking (and on a larger scale responsible of mutations).

    Sometimes dead matter collide, but no harm is done - there is no inner structure that can be damaged.
    And sometimes were atoms or larger structures with rich inner lives, constantly interacting with other atoms and being bombarded by dead unconscious matter.

    But where do all these bombarding lonely particles come from? Well we just have to reverse time, they are the products of an atom broken in two.
    Naturally a chain reaction can easily be formed from all these fission processes. Luckily there is usually plenty of neutrons around - stabilizing the process, absorbing.
    We just have to find our role in all this.
    It's just the universe becoming aware of itself. So that it may prevent itself from self-harm.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008


    I bet you are afraid of societies dominated by something

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014


    Of course.

    If there is still any doubt:
    Education is the solution.
    Not violence.

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