The IM element thread

[Dr Mobius]

That's primarily because it hasn't been described as such before due to the fact that Socionics sees the functions as subservient to the intertype-relation system instead of exploring them further, instead taking specific information from the functions and rolling with those rather than the generalized concept in order to increase the efficiency of typing. Hence I cannot point to any known source, but I find it rather insightful and perhaps a deeper look into the glossed-over IM element.

Ah fair enough, I thought I hadn’t seen it before.

 

[011235813]

It's funny how that works.

MBTI SP = Freespirited hedonist, enjoying bonfires. This is one popular stereotype, it varies.
Socionics Se = Practical, authoritative, materialistic, no bullsh-t, making things happen.

The former attitude is more likely to be associated with a Si-seeking intuitive (ENFp or ENTp) than a Se-base or LSI, for example. I think it's accurate though. Socionics Se does a more satisfying job at describing some of the personalities I've witnessed in action than any Myers-briggs description, particularly in the case of ESI--Se-subtype especially. What would be the MBTI equivalent of that? SFJs? I previously had a difficult time typing one friend of mine in MBTI, yet ESI-Se 'sums her up' perfectly.


Edit: I apologize if I'm deviating from the original intent of the thread. Which I have a feeling I am.

I'm pretty crap at typing people IRL in either system (and in enneagram too for that matter) so I don't know which is better or provides a closer approximation of what people are like. I'm just beginning to realize what an important role culture/environment plays in how functions/information elements manifest themselves ... which is why the two systems don't square up neatly with each other (I know that's what Zara thinks anyway and I'm strongly inclined to agree with him in this respect.)

I do also think though that intra-type differences exist even in the same cultural setting ... and that sometimes members of a particular type are going to vibe completely differently ... and I don't have a particularly convincing explanation for why that is. [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION] invokes different sociotypes as a possible explanation. And it's honestly not a terrible explanation in terms of practicalities. But the divergence in theory is ugly.

I'm probably not making very much sense here either.

Is there any glint of SFP or SFJ in your ESI-Se friend, one way or the other?

 

[Stansmith]

I'm pretty crap at typing people IRL in either system (and in enneagram too for that matter) so I don't know which is better or provides a closer approximation of what people are like. I'm just beginning to realize what an important role culture/environment plays in how functions/information elements manifest themselves ... which is why the two systems don't square up neatly with each other (I know that's what Zara thinks anyway and I'm strongly inclined to agree with him in this respect.)

I do also think though that intra-type differences exist even in the same cultural setting ... and that sometimes members of a particular type are going to vibe completely differently ... and I don't have a particularly convincing explanation for why that is. [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION] invokes different sociotypes as a possible explanation. And it's honestly not a terrible explanation in terms of practicalities. But the divergence in theory is ugly.

I'm probably not making very much sense here either.

Is there any glint of SFP or SFJ in your ESI-Se friend, one way or the other?

True. You're doing fine.

Probably, but she's a difficult read.

She's more internally rigid and concerned with the integrity of her relationships than a stereotypical ESFP.
Wayyy too vocal to be ISFx.
Too emotionally/socially polarizing to be a stereotypical ESFJ. Not concerned with maintaining the prevalent emotional atmosphere if it doesn't match her mood.

Some of this could match ESTJ, but it's all based on strong emotion, personal ethics, etc.

 

[infinite]

I do also think though that intra-type differences exist even in the same cultural setting ... and that sometimes members of a particular type are going to vibe completely differently ... and I don't have a particularly convincing explanation for why that is. [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION] invokes different sociotypes as a possible explanation. And it's honestly not a terrible explanation in terms of practicalities. But the divergence in theory is ugly.

Yes, it's ugly and it probably means something. Like, these theories are just oversimplified models. This is what some people don't want to hear, yeah, though honestly what's wrong with accepting it? They can still be used to analyse people in certain ways.

If you want particularly convincing explanations why some members of a type are different, you would have to step really far beyond these current models and I don't think anyone has really good explanations yet anyway