Socionics SFs in brief

[Galena]

I've been giving grasping the socionics types another try. It's great how much length the descriptions and information go to, but sometimes absorbing the big picture of a type from that volume of detail is like trying to pull a wedding dress through the eye of a needle. I'm also having difficulty incorporating the more theoretical bits into my sense of what sorts of people these are, which is what I want from it.

So, socionics people, what would be a huge help: how would you sum up each of the SF types (SEI, SEE, ESI, ESE) in a paragraph at most?

If you have a lot of time on your hands, I'm curious about the INFs and ILI, too.

 

[sulfit]

Will have to think about this. Not an easy assignment. In the mean time, I would recommend Reinin dichotomies for quickly telling types apart, if you know how to apply them. This is the entire table: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Reinin

 

[Galena]

Thanks, [MENTION=10791]sulfit[/MENTION]! I've read some about the dichotomies, too. When it comes to them, I fit ESI pretty neatly. I wonder, though, why aren't all combinations accounted for with types (besides that there would be a zillion types if they were)? For instance, why can't there be a type that would, on the colored table on the wiki, have all red traits? Why doesn't that one exist while the combinations on there do?

 

[WorldSocionics]

SEI (Si>Fe) - Focuses in on their physical sensations, relaxing and enjoying their surroundings. They cheerfully attend to others so as to stop conflicts from disturbing their physical harmony.

ESE (Fe>Si) - Believes in emotional involvement, expressively elevating the spirits of those around them through entertainment and fun. Creates a pleasant physical atmosphere to nurture this emotional high among their peers.

SEE (Se>Fi) - Keenly navigates their physical environment for things of desire, rising to challenges and fighting to expand their power through force of will. Forms strong ties and relationships with others to help them achieve their ends.

ESI (Fi>Se) - Subjects the environment to strict moral judgement, identifying the 'good' and 'bad' in people. Takes assertive action to uphold the good and punish the bad in others.

 

[valaki]

SEI (Si>Fe) - Focuses in on their physical sensations, relaxing and enjoying their surroundings. They cheerfully attend to others so as to stop conflicts from disturbing their physical harmony.

Some stereotype... involving enneagram 9 motives

I read somewhere on wikisocion that Si types can enjoy e.g. fighting for the release of adrenaline and the feeling that that causes. Thus, Si != peaceful environment

SEE (Se>Fi) - Keenly navigates their physical environment for things of desire, rising to challenges and fighting to expand their power through force of will. Forms strong ties and relationships with others to help them achieve their ends.

Help who? (Bolded) The SEE or the other people?

ESI (Fi>Se) - Subjects the environment to strict moral judgement, identifying the 'good' and 'bad' in people. Takes assertive action to uphold the good and punish the bad in others.

Overlap with E1 here. Which is better?

 

[WorldSocionics]

Some stereotype... involving enneagram 9 motives

I read somewhere on wikisocion that Si types can enjoy e.g. fighting for the release of adrenaline and the feeling that that causes. Thus, Si != peaceful environment

That sort of rush and feeling in the moment sounds more Se-ish... for SEE it's very much about the sensation of combat and struggle.

The whole idea of chasing after more sensation is a rather Se thing.
For Si, it's more IP temperament i.e. adapting to one's physical environment, being in harmony with it... 9 is very similar to the IP temperament in Socionics.

Help who? (Bolded) The SEE or the other people?

Usually the former, although SEEs can be pretty generous if they feel like it.

Overlap with E1 here. Which is better?

Well, ESI is of the IJ temperament which 1 is very much like.

 

[valaki]

That sort of rush and feeling in the moment sounds more Se-ish... for SEE it's very much about the sensation of combat and struggle.

The whole idea of chasing after more sensation is a rather Se thing.
For Si, it's more IP temperament i.e. adapting to one's physical environment, being in harmony with it... 9 is very similar to the IP temperament in Socionics.

I found it: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SEI

"Participation in violent physical activities where such fights may take place, as in some sports, are motivated not by those fights themselves but by the stimulating sensations those activities generate, such as the release of adrenaline."

In this context, enjoyment of the sensation of adrenaline is a Si thing, not Se. What do you think?

(I personally don't like to focus on the adrenaline itself too directly. I am better off paying attention outside to the external stuff instead )

Do you not have an issue with 9 being so similar to IP temperament?

Usually the former, although SEEs can be pretty generous if they feel like it.

Thought so hahaha

Well, ESI is of the IJ temperament which 1 is very much like.

Same question as above about 9 vs IP. :/

 

[WorldSocionics]

I found it: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SEI

"Participation in violent physical activities where such fights may take place, as in some sports, are motivated not by those fights themselves but by the stimulating sensations those activities generate, such as the release of adrenaline."

In this context, enjoyment of the sensation of adrenaline is a Si thing, not Se. What do you think?

Someone has recently added this in. It is a wiki after all.

My thoughts: an SEI would rather be in comfort and harmony with his environment. A fight seems too aggressive with their value system, however endorphins could be something they may appreciate but they might seek that through exercise instead of necessarily fighting people. It makes more sense of Si to moderate and control sensation, fine-tuning it to get the best feeling. I do see Se leads very much enjoying fighting for its adrenaline however. The intensity of the struggle is just the sort of Extroversion one sees in Sensation.

Do you not have an issue with 9 being so similar to IP temperament?

No, they're different systems and so not everything has to be distinct. If the EJ temperament sounded like the IP temperament we'd have a problem.

 

[valaki]

Someone has recently added this in. It is a wiki after all.

It's *not* a recent addition, it has been there for years.

My thoughts: an SEI would rather be in comfort and harmony with his environment. A fight seems too aggressive with their value system, however endorphins could be something they may appreciate but they might seek that through exercise instead of necessarily fighting people. It makes more sense of Si to moderate and control sensation, fine-tuning it to get the best feeling. I do see Se leads very much enjoying fighting for its adrenaline however. The intensity of the struggle is just the sort of Extroversion one sees in Sensation.

I didn't know SEI had a fixed value system?

Do you think Se leads like to focus on the internal feeling of adrenaline rush directly? Just because I don't like to. I prefer to focus outside. I guess the invigorating feeling that comes with the fighting could be the result of adrenaline but it's just so intertwined with the action itself. Do you see what I mean?

No, they're different systems and so not everything has to be distinct. If the EJ temperament sounded like the IP temperament we'd have a problem.

But they are systems about the same reality so they should be making sense together.

 

[infinite]

SEI (Si>Fe) - Focuses in on their physical sensations, relaxing and enjoying their surroundings. They cheerfully attend to others so as to stop conflicts from disturbing their physical harmony.

ESE (Fe>Si) - Believes in emotional involvement, expressively elevating the spirits of those around them through entertainment and fun. Creates a pleasant physical atmosphere to nurture this emotional high among their peers.

SEE (Se>Fi) - Keenly navigates their physical environment for things of desire, rising to challenges and fighting to expand their power through force of will. Forms strong ties and relationships with others to help them achieve their ends.

ESI (Fi>Se) - Subjects the environment to strict moral judgement, identifying the 'good' and 'bad' in people. Takes assertive action to uphold the good and punish the bad in others.

Things of desire, is this a Fi thing? Just because the bolded fits me really really well at times. None of the rest really does, though I got, among other types, both gamma SF types in a test.

PS: Btw [MENTION=5759]edchidna1000[/MENTION], the link in your profile does not work

 

[WorldSocionics]

Things of desire, is this a Fi thing? Just because the bolded fits me really really well at times. None of the rest really does, though I got, among other types, both gamma SF types in a test.

PS: Btw [MENTION=5759]edchidna1000[/MENTION], the link in your profile does not work

It's more an Se thing... they see, they want, they take. I meant it in terms of an appetite for things, bringing the motivation to do what is necessary to acquire the thing of desire.

Fi is more about judging things of value... this is a 'good' thing.. this is a 'bad' thing. SEEs tend to use this in terms of ascertaining their sentiments towards others, allowing the forging of relationships that can aid them in getting what they want.

Thanks, I'll sort that out.

 

[infinite]

It's more an Se thing... they see, they want, they take. I meant it in terms of an appetite for things, bringing the motivation to do what is necessary to acquire the thing of desire.

OK I relate to that

Fi is more about judging things of value... this is a 'good' thing.. this is a 'bad' thing. SEEs tend to use this in terms of ascertaining their sentiments towards others, allowing the forging of relationships that can aid them in getting what they want.

That relationship manipulation... Sounds slightly psychopathic, hehe.

As for the judging of "good" and "bad" things, what kind of "good" and "bad"? More specifics please?

 

[WorldSocionics]

As for the judging of "good" and "bad" things, what kind of "good" and "bad"? More specifics please?

An Fi lead is all about their sentimental reactions towards things, whether they have a positive "good" or negative "bad" response. For instance, an Fi lead may judge someone to be a 'bad' person, because he has brought them a negative reaction. Someone who brings them positive reactions would be seen as 'good'. They may think that a proposed activity is "good" in that they think it is doing the "right" thing.

It's more complicated than this though. For instance, an Fi lead will have lots of different feelings towards different people... this person being this kind of friend, that person being that kind of friend, all deserving different treatments.

 

[infinite]

An Fi lead is all about their sentimental reactions towards things, whether they have a positive "good" or negative "bad" response. For instance, an Fi lead may judge someone to be a 'bad' person, because he has brought them a negative reaction. Someone who brings them positive reactions would be seen as 'good'. They may think that a proposed activity is "good" in that they think it is doing the "right" thing.

It's more complicated than this though. For instance, an Fi lead will have lots of different feelings towards different people... this person being this kind of friend, that person being that kind of friend, all deserving different treatments.

OK but how is this feeling of "good" and "bad" explained? Or does a snap judgment just happen based on reaction? Or, there's an intricate internal framework too? Where they can explain why something is good or right etc.

 

[five sounds]

An Fi lead is all about their sentimental reactions towards things, whether they have a positive "good" or negative "bad" response. For instance, an Fi lead may judge someone to be a 'bad' person, because he has brought them a negative reaction. Someone who brings them positive reactions would be seen as 'good'. They may think that a proposed activity is "good" in that they think it is doing the "right" thing.

It's more complicated than this though. For instance, an Fi lead will have lots of different feelings towards different people... this person being this kind of friend, that person being that kind of friend, all deserving different treatments.

this is really good. it's simplified, but there's an essential truth there.

 

[WorldSocionics]

OK but how is this feeling of "good" and "bad" explained? Or does a snap judgment just happen based on reaction? Or, there's an intricate internal framework too? Where they can explain why something is good or right etc.

Ti would be the explainable, detached judgement where something is 'correct' or 'incorrect' based on whether it contradicts the rules or not.

Fi would be the far harder to explain, personal judgement where what is 'good' and 'bad' comes from one's sentiments i.e. your personal sensibilities. It's a lot more limbic than logical.

 

[infinite]

Ti would be the explainable, detached judgement where something is 'correct' or 'incorrect' based on whether it contradicts the rules or not.

Fi would be the far harder to explain, personal judgement where what is 'good' and 'bad' comes from one's sentiments i.e. your personal sensibilities. It's a lot more limbic than logical.

What's "personal sensibilities"?

Ti to me is pretty instinct based a lot of the time. Meaning I just automatically know and "feel" logic. But yes fleshing out the quick logical conclusions does require using this explainable detached process. In my case anyway.

 

[WorldSocionics]

What's "personal sensibilities"?

Ti to me is pretty instinct based a lot of the time. Meaning I just automatically know and "feel" logic. But yes fleshing out the quick logical conclusions does require using this explainable detached process. In my case anyway.

As in things that when violated cause a person to feel offended.

 

[infinite]

As in things that when violated cause a person to feel offended.

EDIT: nvm

 

[sulfit]

What's "personal sensibilities"?

Ti to me is pretty instinct based a lot of the time. Meaning I just automatically know and "feel" logic. But yes fleshing out the quick logical conclusions does require using this explainable detached process. In my case anyway.

Ti isn't "logic" per se. It's an instinctive sense of the more sensible and fitting arrangement, but fleshing out what you think, formal logic, providing arguments and proofs, etc. any type can do this. EIIs and IEEs who train themselves in logical fallacies and logical discourse become very good at it despite having weak Ti. This means the Tx functions and "logic" are not the same thing.