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Socionics- What is your quadra and why?

Which Quadra are you


  • Total voters
    104
G

Ginkgo

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Beta. Silliness>seriousness. I kind of feel like I'm at the axis of the world, which I'm assuming to be in the same spot as the "abyss" of the description. I tend to test the boundaries and explore the surrounding sandbox after frequent vacations to see what the void has to offer in terms of how to transform and grow. Paradoxes simplify life here. I don't really see peoples' 'paths' in the same way the delta is described. People hardly ever come or go in my eyes; they all just float around in one respect or another.
 
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so/sp
Does it bother you that your MBTI type is completely functionally different from your Socionics type?

They were designed to interpret the same phenomenon.

Similarly, I question why people feel obliged to cherry-pick.
 

Entropic

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[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION], I know you were doing it in a loosely correlated manner but my 4 wing didn't like that. Anyway, as for Lelouch being a 6w5, I can't see it. Where's the holy faith in him? Where's the doubt, the questioning, the inability to believe in hmself and what he knows and that of authority? [MENTION=17134]PimpinMcBoltage[/MENTION], same about beta-ness. So I'll just shoot both of you down here because I don't think he's a beta NF 6w5 and here's why:

In episode 6 of season 1, I think the differences between beta NF and gamma NT is perfectly illustrated. What you need to realize are the differences exhibited in behavior between Lelouch and Milly, the latter a clear beta NF type, I'd wager EIE. In fact, most of the students at the academy seem to be Fe-oriented with the exception of Lelouch, Suzaku (EII-Ne 1w2 so/sp or possibly so/sx) and Kallen (most likely ESI-Fi 6wx sp/sx). What you see going on at the academy are mostly beta antics. Lelouch's ability to plan and think ahead are not 6w5 traits but clear Ni and Te traits. There's nothing inherent about the 6w5 sp type to be able to plan ahead. If anything, what you'd get is most likely an intensely private and most likely rather phobic 6. Even if we assume that Lelouch is a 6 and is counterphobic he is clearly not 6-reactive. This video is one of the best there is in showcasing 6 and 4 reactivity:


DiCaprio's character is a clear 6. Notice the superego drive of never being wrong. Lelouch doesn't have that and while I'm about 1/3 of the first season, I have yet to see Lelouch act or behave in this manner. He's clearly a narcissist. Look at how he loves the attention directed towards Zero, and when he acquires the Geass he's not concerned about the moral consequences of what it means using it as a 6 most likely would, instead, he simply sees it as a way to further his goals. He clearly does not care much about other people's feelings which speaks inherently against beta NF, even beta NF gone wrong. No, his masterplan is of impersonal structure - he is going to take down the Britannian empire despite that pretty much everyone has told him that it's not possible. How's that not narcissist? Heck, compare him to Sephiroth after he went insane and you realize the differences because Sephiroth's logic is still weirdly Fe-tinted. He's going to unite with his mother and further his mother's plans to destroy the planet and then the rest of the universe. Where's Sephiroth's focus on his personal desires? No, what he does is that he takes on the desires of JENOVA and he literarily becomes JENOVA. That's twisted Fe logic for you.

You also forgot that 7 has a connection to 5 so a 7 will naturally take on some of the traits of a 5, especially since 5 is the soul child of the 7. What you see from Lelouch is mostly a positive outlook attitude of things working out because Lelouch ultimately trusts himself and his abilities almost to a fault which can come across as a carefree manner. That's narcissism and id drive and the greed kicks in because it's not just enough to free Japan, no, he's going to take down the entire Britannian empire by himself but whereas other types who might claim the same thing, for instance 6s, might ultimately bark louder than they bite but ultimately waver, Lelouch can actually do it. He's very aware of his abilities and the limitations of them, and I'd say that's a strong argument that showcases his connection to 5.

Furthermore, not once are we shown that what he seeks in life is ultimately some kind of stability nor do we see him seeking out authority figures. His rejection of his father and the Britannian empire rather seems to be based on 8 anger and drive, especially because of what they did towards his sister. It's revenge that he seeks, not because he wants to show the world the truth or because he ultimately distrusts society itself. One could perhaps even make a compelling argument for sx/sp 8 but I feel that Lelouch has ultimately a positive outlook on life and while a dog-eat-dog mentality drives him forward, it doesn't seem to be the core outlook that defines him.

Also, another way to clearly discern the differences between Lelouch from being a 6 is simply comparing him to Kallen who is a 6 which became very evident in the bathroom scene in episode 3. Furthermore, Lelouch's Te couldn't be more evident in how he figures out the limits of the Geass powers. It's all Te data: You can only use it once per person, there seems to be no inherent limit to how long the power lasts, you need to be in direct eye contact for it to work etc. Te creative makes very sense for him.

The there's Fi that shows itself in that Lelouch's morals and ethics are not driven based on external expectations but based on his personal ethics. It's always about how things make him feel, not how others feel. He's not going to destroy the Britannian empire because it's good for the people or Japan or any other Fe reason someone could come up with, no, he's going to do it because he thinks his father is a douchebag and allowed his mother to be killed and his sister to be put in a wheelchair. It's very personal.
 

Elfboy

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[MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION]
I didn't forget anything, and, I'm sorry, but most of your enneagram typings in your last post are completely off
 

Entropic

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[MENTION=16405]LeaT[/MENTION]
I didn't forget anything, and, I'm sorry, but most of your enneagram typings in your last post are completely off

Based on what reasoning?
 

Kierva

#KUWK
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sp/sx
People peg me as EIE, and I believe them. :thinking:

EIEs are supposed to love people who just go after what they want using sheer force of will (Se), so I guess you technically have a chance :happy2:

;)
 

Elfboy

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Based on what reasoning?
- I'm not 100% sold on Lelouch being a 6w5 (I could see 1w9 or, possibly, 8w7), but 7w8 is out of the question. he is not impulsive (at least, not in a 7w8-ish way. he does have a sort of NTJ-ish arrogance that can lead him astray at times), does not live for the moment, is not an intensity junky and does not seek excessive hedonism. 7s integrate to 5 because they are naturally deficient at 5-ish coping mechanisms (the same way 8 is naturally devoid of 2, 1 is naturally devoid of 7 etc)
- there is no way Kallen is an Sp dom. she's a clear Sx dom 6w7 with an 8w7 fix and probably Sx/So (she's kind of like an anime version of [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION])

PS: I think you were right about me though. after reading the interaction styles of all the types, it seems like I'm the Gamma poster child. now the question is, which one?
 

RaptorWizard

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Don't know :( - Socionics has very convoluted views on functional interplays, as it just makes things way too complicated to understand, and is a very messy theory that may not even be related to the reality of personality. A simple theory is usually the better one, one that is actually comprehensible and can be effectively worked with to produce proper mental constructs. That is why my advice would be just to stick with the classic MBTI view on functions (and even that may not stand on perfect foundations). I'm not quite so sure they all need to stack up like a cake.
 

Entropic

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- I'm not 100% sold on Lelouch being a 6w5 (I could see 1w9 or, possibly, 8w7), but 7w8 is out of the question. he is not impulsive (at least, not in a 7w8-ish way. he does have a sort of NTJ-ish arrogance that can lead him astray at times), does not live for the moment, is not an intensity junky and does not seek excessive hedonism. 7s integrate to 5 because they are naturally deficient at 5-ish coping mechanisms (the same way 8 is naturally devoid of 2, 1 is naturally devoid of 7 etc)
- there is not way Kallen is an Sp dom. she's a clear Sx dom 6w7 with an 8w7 fix and probably Sx/So

PS: I think you were right about me though. after reading the interaction styles of all the types, it seems like I'm the Gamma poster child. now the question is, which one?

I don't see 1w9 because I don't see him possessing a need for moral righteousness with focus on purity. Both 8s and 1s can be vengeance-driven but they will be so in inherently different ways. He's not afraid of anger and he's clearly lacking shame.

Why would all those traits be examples of 7w8? Would not NiTe by itself create a different flair of 7 than the poster descriptions make the type seems to be like?

What does the soul child mean to you? What kind of coping mechanisms do you think 7s lack that they need to learn from the 5?

And of course I'm right. You will find I'm often very right ;) Why do you think Kallen is an sx dom and more likely sx/so as opposed to sp?
 

Little_Sticks

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I'm in the Omega Quadra because I decided I don't like all the people in the other quadras and wanted my own theory of relationships. So I reserve this utopian quadra for those that I deem fit for its enlightenment. And we have weekly pizza parties and worship hard liquor, which I believe the other quadras do not have, although I haven't checked with the other quadras in quite a while; those other quadras do enjoy their wars and here in Omega Quadra we prefer to watch, rather than participate. Omega Quadra is quite the Quadra, I say.
 

Flatlander

Fair and Square
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I'm in the Omega Quadra because I decided I don't like all the people in the other quadras and wanted my own theory of relationships. So I reserve this utopian quadra for those that I deem fit for its enlightenment. And we have weekly pizza parties and worship hard liquor, which I believe the other quadras do not have, although I haven't checked with the other quadras in quite a while; those other quadras do enjoy their wars and here in Omega Quadra we prefer to watch, rather than participate. Omega Quadra is quite the Quadra, I say.

Having five quadras rather defeats the point of the word. You kicking out the Alphas?
 

Flatlander

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fuck, it was supposed to be a joke
 

Little_Sticks

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obama-smiling-mic.jpg


little_sticks 1
INTJs 0
 

Thalassa

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I found quadra progression to be interesting. It touches upon how information exchanged between socionics types spurs social progress and societal evolution:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/115-Quadra-Progression-by-dolphin



There is another interpretation here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/117-Quadra-Progression-by-Gilly

and a type-by-type progression: The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings

That description of Gamma is horrifying. It may give me nightmares.

I want to be a Beta now just so I don't have to be a morning after victim scrabbling and clawing at the walls of the abyss.
 

Thalassa

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Although in that link the similarity between ENFj and ESFp is powerful again...they're both political, one is a revolutionary and one is a politician who creates anarchy.

Ah...but the ENFj actually builds a new organization? Then he burns out, breaks down, becomes ill...oh lovely.

Beta quadra starts with EIE, the Mentor. This is the most revolutionary type in the socion. He is usually rebelling against some current system. At some point his rebellion becomes more forceful - he becomes almost as if obsessed - he teaches, proselytizes, demands to stop the old and start the new. Then he builds a new organization. It is interesting to note that building an organization is not accomplished by LSI as some think, but by EIE. Later Mentor burns out - breaks down, or become ill, or loses his sanity, or simply withdraws from public sphere. The sooner this occurs - the higher was the energy load of the type. Or in other words, the faster the clock is ticking inside him - the sooner he accomplishes the above. At the end he burns out, often physically.

Third or gamma quadra is the quadra of liberal-democratic values. This is what we have plunged into now on a global level. If we consider the world as one community, it turns out that experiences of third quadra, liberal-democratic values, are being imposed on the entire world. This quadra's leader is SEE, the Politician, thus at this stage politics blossom - there are constant elections and re-elections, casting of votes, formation of coalitions, all sorts of behind-the-scenes agreements, say one thing but do another policy. "Be flexible," "Carpe Diem" - these are the slogans of SEE. Here picking right orientation is of primary importance - switch position, find a sponsor, find someone powerful, unite goals. SEE re-orients and re-focuses immediately. He has a keen awareness of what's happening: he feels "right now is time to act" - and quickly gets to it. He cleanly and diplomatically manipulates people. Then comes freedom, that turns into anarchy (historical example: Gorbachev, the last president of Soviet Union). If SEE is allowed to manage a system, it will come to anarchy. Absolutely.

I think it's interesting that Gamma is the quadra of liberal-democratic values. Of course they are. Gamma's role is to criticize and remove the mistakes of the past. Gammas are not aristocratic like Betas are.

So Gamma SEE removes and breaks down, and Beta EIE actually builds the new organization?

SEEs harshly judge in the least straightforward way compared to the other three gamma types. SEEs are driven primarily by and not . Because of this, their judgments tend to be rapid and impetuous. It is not the case, though, that they are less harsh because of this; their harsh judgments are expressed more impetuously. Because their positive judgments are expressed more impetuously, they exhibit much more obvious moving-towards people than the other gamma types. Despite the volatility of their judgments, more centrally, underneath their lack of reserve (the fixative area for SEEs) they have an intuitive and stable sense of who is a good person and who is not.

They both seem emotionally volatile, political and naturally manipulative of other people.

LOL...

SEEs may be quite faithful and allegiant to those they are close to; however, their relations and emotional reactions towards others may be volatile and lubricious. Though they often aspire to treat everyone with whom they interact in a convivial manner, they may exhibit strong (and often variable) dislike of certain individuals. They may maintain an internal network of certain individuals whom they regard as friends, and others who they regard as jerks or otherwise with some antagonism. They often have little conception of the history of their emotional reactions towards others; they may be inimical and pernicious one day, while incognizant of the conflict on the next.

EIEs tend to embody a challenging, competitive style of expressing themselves and communicating with others. They often tend to push others' boundaries, say things that are shocking, unexpected, or unpleasant, and can have a somewhat insistent and demanding style about them. Typically, EIEs' challenging communicative style serves the purpose of eliciting emotional reactions, or enlisting others to the EIEs' vision or cause.

WHAT IS THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO? One is aristocratic, the other diplomatic or egalitarian. One sees people as groups or roles, one sees people as individuals judged by individual character.

Though I can see why people would think I have traits of both, I still think the bolded parts of SEE sound most like me. And I'm not really sure I have the energy or inclination to build any kind of new organizations. I see myself as adaptable and very adept at creating new situations for myself in the real world. That's not building ground up organizations with a vision like the EIE. I can see though where people would see me as dramatic, or becoming my causes.

I oppose aristocratic political Betas though. I'm really thinking about this now. It's my contempt for what I see as upper middle class uniform liberalism, that would be EIE politics, and even though I initially see these people individually as people who share my views, at some point I find myself expressing criticism for their sheltered elitism, or their political correctness.

SEE it is. Bite me.
 

Amargith

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Interesting links...

The corrector or perfector of the quadra is its fourth type - IEI. This type is the bifurcation point - it does something to make the system transition to a completely different state, a more democratic one. This is what is called an "open society". This is the mission of third, gamma quadra. IEI carries the key which locks the second quadra and unlocks the third one. He dreams of a better life, that all this totalitarianism comes to an end, strives to create peace. He rejects force. The system disintegrates - a sudden collapse then everything moves towards a new state. This can be observed experimentally - if an IEI is working in a group he will as some point halt this huge machine. It is simply amazing how he brings about this crash, unclear how this is achieved. Here again it can all start over again or move to third quadra. But nobody will leave voluntarily, especially from second quadra.

:thinking: So basically, we're the traitors of our quadra? :cry:

Not sure I fully grasp what our role is according to this text, but...

I guess I sort of relate. As much as I enjoy the camaraderie and standing together on an idea, it can easily turn into an oppressive group which bullies others - much like a tribe would defend their territory against intruders and I don't...feel comfortable with that stuff. Everyone should have an equal say imo and the aristocratic part of the definition of the betas was always a bit iffy to relate to, for me. In many ways, I actually identify with the delta quadra values, I just don't relate to their execution. And I guess I do try to undo a situation where I see people in the grip of some ideology, unable to express what is on their mind.

I remember my dad being afraid I'd fallen in with a cult when i was 20, and my mom rolling her eyes at him going: 'you couldn't tell her what to do for 20 years, what makes you think she is going to listen to a complete stranger? If she is part of a cult, she is most likely going to be running the damned joint'
 
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