People that know Socionics ??

[liYA]

fi infj ....mbti infp?

is fi- isfj .... mbti isfp?

ti-estp and.... estj?


se infp?....mbti infj?

do you flip the p and the j?

as an example what's with the fe vs si isfp?
also does are all the mbti cognitive functions the same in socionics?

 

[liYA]

wait......se-estp...? you cant switch that to estj mbti estj doesn't have se! what the heck??? ugh

 

[BlackCat]

Socionics functions are not the same as the MBTI cognitive functions. It doesn't work like that. Any amount of research in socionics will tell you that. I'm an ISFP SEI. I am for sure not Gamma or ESI, despite them being an Fi base type in socionics. I totally disagree with most of what Fi valuers agree with in socionics.

 

[Little_Sticks]

It depends on a number of things. First, what do you want out of typology? To learn about other people so that you can use it to make quick and accurate assumptions about their being? Or just to learn about yourself? Both?

How will you learn about it then? Learn the functions? Learn many interpretations of the functions (mbti, socionics, etc.)? Develop your own intuitions about it? Keep in mind, this is not a science and any absolute someone states is a subjective fact/understanding. There is no agreed upon interpretation of mbti or socionics (and thus no source of information is an authority on the matter) and you will get contradictions between the ways people reason a particular system or when comparing systems.

The nature of life seems that we are forced to rationalize behavior after the fact; the preceding behavior is irrational until our conscious mind rationalizes it. But science finds rationalizations that are true for everyone, forming constants, while Jungian typologies have failed to do that. So I suppose it's not too surprising there is no objective consensus on anything.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't understand behavior, but just that currently you can't trust anyone's reason and conclusions to be objective.

I suppose you'll have to determine what works for you and leave it at its existentialist encasement. So what works for you in answering your questions, liYA?

 

[KDude]

Generally, the P/J flip is only for introverts. So INFj is closer to MBTI INFP (function wise), but ENFp is still ENFP. Both revolve around Ne-Fi.

The reason why INFj ends in "j" is because their leading function is a judging one (Fi). Ni/Si/Se/Ne leading are percievers ("p").

Actually, you might not want to lay the blame for the confusion on to Socionics exactly either. It's partly Myers' fault. In her book, she insisted that Fi and Ti leading were percieving types, despite the leading judging function. That Ti and Fi were sort of hidden, and they only interacted with the outside world through "Pe". She departed from the Jungian definition of Fi and Ti dom, and explicitly said to pay little mind to it. That Jung was mistaken, and that they never "displayed" (so to speak) their judging function. That most of the time all anyone would see is Ne or Se in an INP or ISP type (in a way, relegating them to a poor man's ENP and ESP.. lesser versions of the extroverts.. but nothing unique to offer in their own right).

 

[sulfit]

You can compare MBTI and socionics functions: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/73-Information-Elements-Primer

I saw these type relations recommended on a socionics forum:
INTP:LII,INTj
ENTP:ILE,ENTp
ESFJ:ESE,ESFj
ISFJ:SEI,ISFp
ENFJ:EIE,ENFj
INFJ:IEI,INFp
ISTP:LSI,ISTj
ESTP:SLE,ESTp
INTJ:ILI,INTp
ENTJ:LIE,ENTj
ESFP:SEE,ESFp
ISFP:ESI,ISFj
ENFP:IEE,ENFp
INFP:EII,INFj
ISTJ:SLI,ISTp
ESTJ:LSE,ESTj

 

[FDG]

No, no, no no, no no no NO FLIPPING OF J-P for introverts! The functions are defined differently, so a Fi-Ne in socionics will be INFJ in MBTI because he-she is introverted, intuitive, feeling and judging.

 

[sulfit]

The functions are not defined so differently to make judging functions become perceiving functions. If you are Ti dominant in MBTI there is no way you magically flip and become Ni or Si dominant in Socionics. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the functions.

 

[Jaq]

I've done a bit of lookly loo into socionics and sulfit pretty much said it all.