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Socionics-Must Read for MBTI People (Especially Introverts)

simulatedworld

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K look, I don't know how socionics labels this, but in MBTI terms you're typically better off with someone who shares P/J with you. If that's the opposite of the way socionics letters it, then fine, but the idea is still the same.

If you are an external organizer, find another external organizer. (MBTI calls these people Js.) If you an internal organizer, find yourself another internal organizer (MBTI calls these people Ps.)

That's about as far as it goes before descending into total inconsistency, unfortunately.
 

Oaky

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^ Actually, they say the opposite is better so if your a P, get yourself a J.
 

Goatman455

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No according to socionics an INTJ can either be an INTj or INTp and in that sense I'm an INTp.

INTj - ENFp = "supervisor" - "supervisee"
INTp - ENFp = Illusionary relations

None of which are good.

Relations between Psychological ("personality") Types




How to convert MBTI® type to Socionics type



Yes, I said that. You can be either INTJ or INTP. However, you said a Socionics INTJ matchup is ESFP, but that isn't true, the dual of a Socionics INTJ is ESFJ.

Also, since MBTI INTJ can still be Socionics INTJ (they can also be INTP) you can't say that the best matchup for MBTI INTJ in socionics is ESFP, it is ESFJ, that's the way the system works. You match them up by comparing the dual from the same system, you are confusing things.
 

simulatedworld

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^ Actually, they say the opposite is better so if your a P, get yourself a J.

Who is "they" and why do they say this?

Because that's completely ridiculous.

If you're that determined to miss the point that many times in a row, I'm not sure I can help you. Good luck.
 

Oaky

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Yes, I said that. You can be either INTJ or INTP. However, you said a Socionics INTJ matchup is ESFP, but that isn't true, the dual of a Socionics INTJ is ESFJ.

Also, since MBTI INTJ can still be Socionics INTJ (they can also be INTP) you can't say that the best matchup for MBTI INTJ in socionics is ESFP, it is ESFJ, that's the way the system works. You match them up by comparing the dual from the same system, you are confusing things.
Dude... (MBTI - socionics) INTJ = INTp or INTj
INTp has best relations with ESFp
INTj has best relations with ESFj
THEREFORE me being an INTJ/INTp would make me best with an ESFP
BUT according to MBTI I would be best with an ENXP

Who is "they" and why do they say this?

Because that's completely ridiculous.

If you're that determined to miss the point that many times in a row, I'm not sure I can help you. Good luck.
MBTI match ups. Personality and Relationships I don't think I can give you anything more clear.
 

Goatman455

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"You see, according to socionics the ideal partner for an INTJ is an ESFP while in MBTI we can say it's an ENFP. "


That is what you said.



That is not true. According to socionics the ideal partner for an INTJ is an ESFJ.

I don't know how it can be any clearer than that.


So I will make it more complicated:

You can't translate the types over because an MBTI INTJ could be either a Socionics INTJ or INTP. So saying that MBTI INTJ will always come out to Socionics INTP and therefore the best match for MBTI INTJ according to socionics is ESFP is also wrong.


INTJ is a type in Socionics and it's dual partner is the ESFJ according to Socionics. If this stuff wasn't consistent it would be pointless.
 

Oaky

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^ I meant INTJ in MBTI. Not INTj in socionics which would make me half right.
 

Goatman455

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^ I meant INTJ in MBTI. Not INTj in socionics which would make me half right.

Yeah, you were correct in your thinking, but it was just a typo, sorry just trying to point it out for people who are unaware of the differences as much as you or I.

Just out of curiosity, who do you find fits the bill more? ESFJ, ENFP, ESFP?
 

fill

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Just another issue to address: Why is this thread in the NF forum?
 

OrangeAppled

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MBTI makes better sense to me. In MBTI, I am Fi Ne and the INFP profiles mostly ring true. In Socionics, Ni Fe fits me better as a package, but not when looking at individual function definitions. INFp sounds like INFP as a whole, yet the functions of INFp should equal MBTI INFJ. Since so many people yell about them not being equivalent, I just accept that I can type Fi for one and Ni for another :tongue:. I find the intertype relationships in socionics very odd also.
 

Oaky

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Yeah, you were correct in your thinking, but it was just a typo, sorry just trying to point it out for people who are unaware of the differences as much as you or I.

Just out of curiosity, who do you find fits the bill more? ESFJ, ENFP, ESFP?
The ENFP. It gave me the most rational explanation as to why it fit my type. In experience, I don't know.
This is the explanation that I found makes sense the most http://personalitypage.com/partners.html
INTJ's dominant function of Introverted Intuition is best matched with a partner whose personality is dominated by Extraverted Intuition.
 

BlackCat

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Lol a lot of introverts stay their type, and there are some where J and P switch, and some people are just different. It's a different system, it should be treated that way. I know 3 INFPs pretty well on this site, two are IEI, one is EII, the differences are apparent within them, so yeah, it's not a definite switch.

Who is "they" and why do they say this?

Because that's completely ridiculous.

If you're that determined to miss the point that many times in a row, I'm not sure I can help you. Good luck.

What you say about keeping J and P is pretty subjective as to what someone will want... neither of you are correct. I personally want a J.

He wasn't missing the point, he thought you were missing the point. Who cares, being right won't accomplish a damn thing for anyone.

It's also of my opinion that the socionics relationships are dead on accurate, you just have to actually read into it and not just read the on the surface description of it. You have to understand exactly why, and when you get to the root of this you can see consistencies, it's based on how the functions within people interact and clash. It works for me, if it doesn't work for you, fine.
 

Goatman455

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We are not saying these are definite, we are talking within the confines of the personality system and what they recommend. Of course everyone is different and looking for different things.


If you are really close on the P/J scale maybe you want a different one. If you are really extreme maybe you want the same, or a different. There are so many combinations it is endless, but if we don't abstract a bit of info for the sake of easy communication we will be typing for hours.
 
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You should come out as the same type in either system. The descriptions in socionics just flesh out/add dimension what mbti's already said.

I also don't understand why some users here flip out whenever it's brought up.
 

BlackCat

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I also don't understand why some users here flip out whenever it's brought up.

I've noticed that people unconsciously attach MBTI type to their personal identity, and when anything wants to change that or challenge it's accuracy (in this context meaning they flip out over socionics perhaps being more accurate), then they flip out or get very aggressive over it.
 

Goatman455

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Well the reason for the flip is because the function order for introverts is different in Socionics. This is not true with extroverts.


The idea is that since we live in an Extrovert Bias world (75% of people are extroverts) that many introverts have overdeveloped secondary functions due to the fact these secondary functions are extroverted, and naturally get more practice than Extroverts secondary functions (extroverts can frequently have overdeveloped primary functions). This along with the personal nature of introversion can cause some introverts to feel MBTI didn't quite work. Socionics changed things around a bit, and as such, some introverts type differently.
 

BlackCat

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Well the reason for the flip is because the function order for introverts is different in Socionics. This is not true with extroverts.

Uh, that isn't the reason. Lol. Some people just relate to one or the other... there are EII and IEI INFPs, LII and ILI INTPs etc. It's all a matter of what works for you. But what we've all been saying thus far is that even though the functions are different it still explains the type well, so it's not an auto swap.
 
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Uh, that isn't the reason. Lol. Some people just relate to one or the other... there are EII and IEI INFPs, LII and ILI INTPs etc. It's all a matter of what works for you. But what we've all been saying thus far is that even though the functions are different it still explains the type well, so it's not an auto swap.

Each of our socionics condos comes with a two-car garage, ya know.
 

Goatman455

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Uh, that isn't the reason. Lol. Some people just relate to one or the other... there are EII and IEI INFPs, LII and ILI INTPs etc. It's all a matter of what works for you. But what we've all been saying thus far is that even though the functions are different it still explains the type well, so it's not an auto swap.



No what I mean is YOU won't flip, but the INTJ or INTP will. When we talk about these personality types I am assuming we are referring to them within their system. What I mean is a MBTI INTJ CAN be a Socionics INTP OR INTJ.

However

The order is reversed from MBTI to Socionics. This doesn't mean you are flipped, it just helps introverts find where they fit most comfortably if they don't like one or the other.

There is no such thing as an auto swap, you pick what you feel fits best, it is a personal decision. But when you talk WITHIN the framework of the personality system, then it swaps. When you compare ISFP MBTI (Introverted Feeling, Extroverted Sensing) to Socionics ISFP (Introverted Sensing, Extroverted Feeling) you have a swap. It doesn't mean the person who reads it is swapped. You gotta read both and decide.

As an ISFP do you think you use Introverted feeling more? If yes, then in Socionics you are ISFJ. If you say "No I use Introverted Sensing more" then you are a ISFP in Socionics, and perhaps MBTI doesn't explain you as well. Or maybe both fit and you are somewhere in between. I am not trying to box people in, quite the opposite, this can liberate your mind because it gives other ways to think about the issue.
 

The Outsider

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Functions are defined differently in Socionics. Therefore, the differences of function orders in those two separate systems don't matter.
 
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