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Thread: Unmanned

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    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quite a few men are unmanned by migrating, while almost all women retain their womanhood by migrating.

    This is subtley illustrated in the movie out now, called "The Cold War".

    It appears manhood is achieved within a particular culture and in moving to an unknown new culture there is no time or ability to learn how to be a man. And so more than a few migrants become unmanned.

    And being unmanned leds them to desperate measures to assert their manhood, such as domestic violence, crime, drugs and alcohol.

    Interestingly, moving from the working class to the middle class, or moving from an illiterate spoken culture to a literate culture, have same effects as migrating.

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    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    I really know better than to reply in earnest but this one is such a no-brainer...
    That's because "womanhood" is determined only by having a vagina ie the only value a women needs to have is being fuckable and this does not change based on culture and "manhood" is determined by desirable personality traits which do change between cultures....but not much.

    And I don't believe that is any kind of excuse for such abhorrent behavior. I thought that most of society was starting to understand that "manliness" does not mean violent and shouty but I guess there will alway be stragglers.
    “ they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I really know better than to reply in earnest but this one is such a no-brainer... That's because "womanhood" is determined only by having a vagina ie the only value a women needs to have is being fuckable and this does not change based on culture and "manhood" is determined by desirable


    personality traits which do change between cultures....but not much.
    i think at a deeper level manhood is a profound pursuit of our psyche. Our psyche orietates within a particular culture as diverse as Australia and Saudi Arabia.

    Women are physically stronger than men. Female babies have a higher survival rate than male babies. women live longer than men, and women have a stronger immune system than men. And women are psychologically stronger than men. So men have stronger muscles while women, of course with exceptions, are psychologically stronger than men,

    The social creation of a man is a delicate process. It is surely ironical that strong men are so psychologically fragile

    ,This irony is often remarked on by women.
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    Alchemist of Life Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    i think at a deeper level manhood is a profound pursuit of our psyche. Our psyche orietates within a particular culture as diverse as Australia and Saudi Arabia.
    What is the equivalent "profound pursuit of the psyche" for women?

    And kudos to you, as you are one of the few members here who has been able to articulate average differences between men and women without overgeneralizing/extrapolating or treating individuals as statistics.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What is the equivalent "profound pursuit of the psyche" for women? And kudos to you, as you are one of the few members here who has been able to articulate average differences between men and women without overgeneralizing/extrapolating or treating individuals as statistics.
    I do appreciate your compliment. And yes my grandmother, my mother, my sister, my aunt, and my neice, and my lovers are part of womanhood. And equally womanhood is a profound pursuit of the psyche.

    Fortunately there is always more to discover in each other.
    Last edited by Mole; 01-10-2019 at 04:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    i think at a deeper level manhood is a profound pursuit of our psyche. Our psyche orietates within a particular culture as diverse as Australia and Saudi Arabia.

    Women are physically stronger than men. Female babies have a higher survival rate than male babies. women live longer than men, and women have a stronger immune system than men. And women are psychologically stronger than men. So men have stronger muscles while women, of course with exceptions, are psychologically stronger than men,

    The social creation of a man is a delicate process. It is surely ironical that strong men are so psychologically fragile

    ,This irony is often remarked on by women.
    I got nuthin. I can't argue with any of this.

    I often joke that the reason women have the stigma of being overly emotional is because men started pinning it on women before anyone realized that it ius actually men who tend to be more more emotional or least, have less control over their emotions. I don't like generalize so while it is of course not true 100% of the time I can say with confidence that I know a far greater number of men who allow their emotions to control them and very few women ( teenagers don't count). My poor husband just,as they say "Can't even." on a daily basis. Last night I asked him to help me with the tiniest thing; slicing bread. He couldn't find the bread knife so he just didn't do it. That's a pretty tame example but par for the course.

    As little tolerance as I have for overly emotional people ( self control is something we're all capable of learning) I'm sure that in the case of a lot of men, especially for those who seem to pride their "strength" this probably has something to do with social conditioning. Or, even simpler, a history of misunderstanding "strength".
    When we say "Men should be strong" a lot of - loath as I am to use this label "western"-society says that strength is how much you can bench press rather than discipline, mental fortitude or strength of character. I would like to say we're coming around but ironically, with nerd culture taking over, I actually see this regressing. We're doubling down on the idea of "strength" as the "Alpha male" who has raped, killed, and pillaged the most ...in an MMO. Meanwhile, in real life, they are being outraged that someone took away their titty-customizer.

    BTW, I'm not saying video games lead to this behavior, I am saying it's interesting when you consider that this idea of manliness is so pervasive that even yesterday outcasts and "losers" who used to champion brains over strength are now adhering to exactly what they claimed to hate now that they have a medium in which they can do it.
    Unfortunately, since most games are now online and the internet is international, it's even hard to say that any one culture is much better than another.
    “ they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

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    Alchemist of Life Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I got nuthin. I can't argue with any of this.

    I often joke that the reason women have the stigma of being overly emotional is because men started pinning it on women before anyone realized that it ius actually men who tend to be more more emotional or least, have less control over their emotions. I don't like generalize so while it is of course not true 100% of the time I can say with confidence that I know a far greater number of men who allow their emotions to control them and very few women ( teenagers don't count). My poor husband just,as they say "Can't even." on a daily basis. Last night I asked him to help me with the tiniest thing; slicing bread. He couldn't find the bread knife so he just didn't do it. That's a pretty tame example but par for the course.
    This is similar to a speculation I have made in a couple of other threads, to the effect that the association of certain traits with men and others with women is really a result of men just claiming the better ones for themselves, rather than any innate differences - other than what is socially programmed, that is. If anyone doubts the inherent and strong emotionality of men, they haven't watched a sporting event in male company lately. This is not meant as a criticism, at least not of the emotionality itself, though I agree 100% with your observations about self-control. If anything it criticises any denial that emotion is simply part of the human condition and not the special purvey of females.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is similar to a speculation I have made in a couple of other threads, to the effect that the association of certain traits with men and others with women is really a result of men just claiming the better ones for themselves, rather than any innate differences - other than what is socially programmed, that is. If anyone doubts the inherent and strong emotionality of men, they haven't watched a sporting event in male company lately.
    Or- if a woman says "No" or ignores them, if they lose a video game, if anyone insinuates that they are manlier than them, etc.
    JohariNohari
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I got nuthin. I can't argue with any of this. I often joke that the reason women have the stigma of being overly emotional is because men started pinning it on women before anyone realized that it ius actually men who tend to be more more emotional or least, have less control over their emotions. I don't like generalize so while it is of course not true 100% of the time I can say with confidence that I know a far greater number of men who allow their emotions to control them and very few women ( teenagers don't count). My poor husband just,as they say "Can't even." on a daily basis. Last night I asked him to help me with the tiniest thing; slicing bread. He couldn't find the bread knife so he just didn't do it. That's a pretty tame example but par for the course. As little tolerance as I have for overly emotional people ( self control is something we're all capable of learning) I'm sure that in the case of a lot of men, especially for those who seem to pride their "strength" this probably has something to do with social conditioning. Or, even simpler, a history of misunderstanding "strength". When we say "Men should be strong" a lot of - loath as I am to use this label "western"-society says that strength is how much you can bench press rather than discipline, mental fortitude or strength of character. I would like to say we're coming around but ironically, with nerd culture taking over, I actually see this regressing. We're doubling down on the idea of "strength" as the "Alpha male" who has raped, killed, and pillaged the most ...in an MMO. Meanwhile, in real life, they are being outraged that someone took away their titty-customizer. BTW, I'm not saying video games lead to this behavior, I am saying it's interesting when you consider that this idea of manliness is so pervasive that even yesterday outcasts and "losers" who used to champion brains over strength are now adhering to exactly what they claimed to hate now that they have a medium in which they can do it. Unfortunately, since most games are now online and the internet is international, it's even hard to say that any one culture is much better than another.
    In a society based on authority, vulnerability is seen as a wound (from 'vulnans' meaning 'wound). And in a society based on empathy, vulnerability is the ground of creativity.
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