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  1. #11
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    I would say that most 8s are prone to cynicism, but it depends on what level of development they're at, and that can change very frequently. I feel like the particular type of cynicism/misanthropy can vary a lot between 8s. I feel like as 8s we don't want to get our hopes up about humanity; it's easier to be pessimistic and be surprised than to be optimistic and be disappointed.

    A child becomes an 8 in response to controlling and unsafe surroundings, whether that's in the home, family, school, church, etc. so all 8s had to "grow up too soon" in order to deal with a physically or emotionally threatening situation. When I say "grow up too soon", I mean losing the childlike belief that good things will happen to you, that right will always win, and that in general, people will not try to take advantage of you. The healthier an 8 is, the more they let go of this pessimism, but because the events of their past could be traumatic, it can be hard to believe in the goodness of people. I hope this clarifies why 8s tend to be cynics, but this is very much based on my own experience and I'd be interested to see what other 8s think about this.

    I don't think innocence is something you can really get back once you've lost it. For some people, it's just a part of growing up (think Catcher in the Rye). It is possible to become more optimistic though, but again, how exactly that comes about is probably very individual. For me, I feel like my faith in humanity is restored when I hear about people defying authority to do what's right (like Oscar Shindler), people going out of their way to help others/animals, or people rejecting a system they were apart of that was hurting others (e.x. I had a straight friend who left his homophobic church), stuff like that. This is because my cynicism takes the form of believing that most people are inherently selfish or downright incapable of feeling empathy for people that are not part of their "tribe", and generally blindly submit to authority. However, I could definitely see how other 8s might think that putting yourself at risk to protect other people/people who are not in the "tribe" is foolish, or that empathy is useless.

    Ultimately, if an 8 is going to come more philanthropic or optimistic, it's going to be because they arrived at that conclusion themself. But healthier 8s can enjoy friendly discussions/arguments about different worldviews. 8s shouldn't feel threatened by other viewpoints or dismiss people over disagreements (within reason).
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  2. #12
    People Order Our Patties The Tsarevich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeeK View Post
    ... but this is very much based on my own experience and I'd be interested to see what other 8s think about this.
    and @Lightyear

    I can only talk about my own experiences, but since you asked.

    I would say 8s have a dark view of humanity, sure. They consider humans to be morons or worse—hostile, grasping, greedy, selfish, predatory lil fuckers. In lower-levels (speaking from experience, I mean like pathologically functioning here) this can lead to violence and abuse, crushing others, and treating them like so much refuse. Absolutely with no remorse…almost like being an automaton since we perceive the world as having dehumanized us to this degree.

    There’s an underlying paranoia, not like how 6s get, where they ruminate on what others really mean, but just knowing that others are conniving to take whatever wealth or power they may have…and so treating others accordingly. Acting as a hand of God (or the Devil) to punish the humans, to make them suffer for their crimes. Gleefully, with an utter disregard for innocence. For there is no innocence to an 8 in this state. Only the joy of destroying humanity—this is justice.

    But, that’s true unhealthiness, and most people will never get there. I was unfortunate.

    For the earlier part of my life, I basically had a motto that people were “good at heart”. I still think that sometimes, actually. I really do feel like we come to earth as these pure spirits…it’s just that Life on Earth gets in the way, people are real dumb and selfish, society is mindless, and it all goes to pot. Soon it’s just ugliness all the time. It’s sad.

    It seems to me that the people who behave the worst are the ones who’ve endured the most abuse with the least support. Who made monsters what they are? The rest of humanity. Hence, I haven’t quite backed off on the desire to treat everyone punitively. They smile and put on facades of their own righteousness and propriety while hiding their uglier side, hypocritically overlooking their own abuses while others suffer beneath them. They label the ones they’ve hurt “monsters” and pride themselves on being the “right sort”. And I enjoy holding the mirror up to their bloated self-importance. FOR YOU, MONSTERS. FOR YOU.

    Because to me there are no monsters, only people who’ve suffered for far too long at the hands of everyone else.

    Damn 2-connection sees the emotional needs.

    There have been times in my life when I’ve felt so utterly enlightened as to the true nature of humanity (being grasping, dehumanized lil monkeys; shallow, robotic, self-congratulatory pieces of shit) that it feels like I can never go back to a younger more innocent age. It’s like a new white sheet spattered with blood. It’s not washing out. I’ve seen too much.

    And that’s how cynicism is for me. I’d say it’s more about society and civilization and what it does to individuals (reward them for phoniness, or castigate them) than inherent qualities of the soul, which it only seems to obscure. I am perfectly willing to view others positively if they want to start acting like they want me to.

    I don’t even pretend to know how to regain my own innocence. If it were that easy, it wouldn’t be my overarching spiritual journey. How do 9s learn to deal with discomfort and inner strife and self-forgetting? Hell if I know. Shit's hard. Best of luck.
    *Need enneagram questionnaire?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post2218641
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