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  1. #491
    Member Coll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saprophytic Aphrodite View Post
    No they don't.
    I wasn't being serious. I wish you . No one can speak for a whole group of people so there's that. For me, tongue in cheek since I happen to know a lot of 4's and might be one myself for all I know. my apologies if I've offended you.

  2. #492

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coll View Post
    I wasn't being serious. I wish you . No one can speak for a whole group of people so there's that. For me, tongue in cheek since I happen to know a lot of 4's and might be one myself for all I know. my apologies if I've offended you.
    It's okay. I just wanted to squash such a misunderstanding, which is commonly held by the masses.

    Yes, 4s have an attachment to immersion in feeling states, and they over-identify with their feelings, but because they are drawn to what's perceived as incomplete or less than within themselves compared to others, they can become rather attached to a painful, negative self-image.

    It's still painful though, and they really do think they are less than in average to lower health levels.

    That was a lesson for everyone... not to single you out.
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  3. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saprophytic Aphrodite View Post
    It's okay. I just wanted to squash such a misunderstanding, which is commonly held by the masses.

    Yes, 4s have an attachment to immersion in feeling states, and they over-identify with their feelings, but because they are drawn to what's perceived as incomplete or less than within themselves compared to others, they can become rather attached to a painful, negative self-image.

    It's still painful though, and they really do think they are less than in average to lower health levels.

    That was a lesson for everyone... not to single you out.
    I don't mind being a target so long as it's for a good cause

  4. #494
    Audentes fortuna iuvat. Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saprophytic Aphrodite View Post
    Yes, 4s have an attachment to immersion in feeling states, and they over-identify with their feelings, but...
    Why it's a joke for anyone to type me as E4

    ...because they are drawn to what's perceived as incomplete or less than within themselves compared to others, they can become rather attached to a painful, negative self-image.
    Now to the real point though...the fuck does this even mean? Not picking at it, just legitimately sitting here looking at it like ????????? as if you're speaking a foreign language.

  5. #495

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    Why it's a joke for anyone to type me as E4


    Now to the real point though...the fuck does this even mean? Not picking at it, just legitimately sitting here looking at it like ????????? as if you're speaking a foreign language.
    I think what people are likely seeing in you is the tenacity of self-preservation 4s, which can be an oddly hardy type at times, combined with an openness in expression that is also typically associated with ennea-type 4. You also tend to move away from being labeled, which can look like differentiation. I think though more than expressing and processing your emotional states or painful feelings, you tend to focus a little more on working through things on your own, without the influence of others (or in a way that is attempting to remove the influence of others in favor of being your own authority). I am not attempting to type you though... that's not up to me.

    As for your other question, 4s are like the shy kid who sits in the back of the class, quietly observing others, and feeling like they (the 4) are somehow inherently different (in an inferior manner) and left out from the life that others get to live. They actually don't feel "special" at all, and thus they feel that they somehow need to be... need to be "different" in some way so that they can have worth (and particularly love) too. Unfortunately, at average to low health, 4s never really feel "ready" to pursue their dreams (like painting, or becoming a renowned violinist, or writing that book, or even moving to the place that seems more promising). They feel that they need to balance their emotional states before being "fit" to pursue their idealized vision of self, and that's where their fantasy self comes into play. They also feel that they won't be happy until they attain these fantasy milestones.

    Therefore, they feel painful emotions quite acutely and tend to be more "scarred" by events or circumstances in their life that point to them being somehow less than, or perceived "failures" that lead them down yet another unfulfilling and painful path. Consequently, their self-story can be rather melancholy, riddled with timestamps of loss, misunderstanding, pain, longing, and hidden wounds. They don't actually want to be considered "special" or superior for their sense of lack... they just want to be seen for this, all of these painful, shameful pieces of them, typically by a romantic partner (all instinctual variants of 4s are drawn to being "found" by a romantic partner), and still accepted and loved for all that they are. They crave having someone come into this painfully separate world of theirs so they can feel the acceptance and love that feels so hard for them to find, and they crave being found "beautiful" despite what they perceive to be scars.

    Self-preservation 4s are still like this, but they struggle to communicate it and they feel that they will earn this love by choking back the tears essentially... that someone will see their strength and come to love and accept them, for their strength and hidden sensitivity. They also immerse themselves into their environment or indulgences, almost as a regressed form of romantic satiation (hedonism, luxury/oddity, substances, ambiance, personal belongings, lifestyle, or even adventure, recklessness, or self-sabotage).

    That was long and rambly, but I hope it clarifies things a bit for you.
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  6. #496
    Audentes fortuna iuvat. Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saprophytic Aphrodite View Post
    I think what people are likely seeing in you is the tenacity of self-preservation 4s, which can be an oddly hardy type at times, combined with an openness in expression that is also typically associated with ennea-type 4. You also tend to move away from being labeled, which can look like differentiation. I think though more than expressing and processing your emotional states or painful feelings, you tend to focus a little more on working through things on your own, without the influence of others (or in a way that is attempting to remove the influence of others in favor of being your own authority). I am not attempting to type you though... that's not up to me.

    As for your other question, 4s are like the shy kid who sits in the back of the class, quietly observing others, and feeling like they (the 4) are somehow inherently different (in an inferior manner) and left out from the life that others get to live. They actually don't feel "special" at all, and thus they feel that they somehow need to be... need to be "different" in some way so that they can have worth (and particularly love) too. Unfortunately, at average to low health, 4s never really feel "ready" to pursue their dreams (like painting, or becoming a renowned violinist, or writing that book, or even moving to the place that seems more promising). They feel that they need to balance their emotional states before being "fit" to pursue their idealized vision of self, and that's where their fantasy self comes into play. They also feel that they won't be happy until they attain these fantasy milestones.

    Therefore, they feel painful emotions quite acutely and tend to be more "scarred" by events or circumstances in their life that point to them being somehow less than, or perceived "failures" that lead them down yet another unfulfilling and painful path. Consequently, their self-story can be rather melancholy, riddled with timestamps of loss, misunderstanding, pain, longing, and hidden wounds. They don't actually want to be considered "special" or superior for their sense of lack... they just want to be seen for this, all of these painful, shameful pieces of them, typically by a romantic partner (all instinctual variants of 4s are drawn to being "found" by a romantic partner), and still accepted and loved for all that they are. They crave having someone come into this painfully separate world of theirs so they can feel the acceptance and love that feels so hard for them to find, and they crave being found "beautiful" despite what they perceive to be scars.

    Self-preservation 4s are still like this, but they struggle to communicate it and they feel that they will earn this love by choking back the tears essentially... that someone will see their strength and come to love and accept them, for their strength and hidden sensitivity. They also immerse themselves into their environment or indulgences, almost as a regressed form of romantic satiation (hedonism, luxury/oddity, substances, ambiance, personal belongings, lifestyle, or even adventure, recklessness, or self-sabotage).

    That was long and rambly, but I hope it clarifies things a bit for you.
    Not entirely, but reading about E4 has always been a bit like reading in a foreign language to me I guess. Thanks anyway. It's just that a lot of it goes against my own core on a fundamental level...whatever I can actually understand of it.

  7. #497
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    I just thought about how silly this question is. The hardest type to be themselves? The hardest type to live within the respective system of their country? The hardest type to be at a party? In a crowd? Stranded on an island? What’s the hardest type to be in a zombie apocalypse scenario? Are we all just answering the question, ‘what type would you think it would suck to be?’ ..

    My work is done.
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  8. #498
    Audentes fortuna iuvat. Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coll View Post
    I just thought about how silly this question is. The hardest type to be themselves? The hardest type to live within the respective system of their country? The hardest type to be at a party? In a crowd? Stranded on an island? What’s the hardest type to be in a zombie apocalypse scenario? Are we all just answering the question, ‘what type would you think it would suck to be?’ ..

    My work is done.
    I think it's moreso about the issues each type has according to the Enneagram, but I agree that it would also often be situational.
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  9. #499
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    Discussion about which enneagram number is the most difficult to be isn't pointless because you learn things but it is impossible to actually know, since it's based on subjective experience.
    That being said I am willing to bet it is the most difficult to be a 4w5. I am this type. Yes, we would rather feel pain than nothing at all but I can honestly say I would rather want to be happy and be happy. I have this desire for happiness but the fact that I'd rather feel pain than nothing makes seeking and finding happiness more difficult. It feels like being drug addict knowing life could be better but yet you can't let go of your crunch long enough to attain the thing you need and want the most, sobriety or happiness.
    I have been told by some that I am creative but I know other enneagram types that are more talented than me. Creativity is my greatest strength. The pain I feel is supposed to produce great works of art that benefit society but yet I don't feel this is possible for me.

  10. #500
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    Me.

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    tiny purple fishes run laughing through your fingers
    and you want to take her with you, to the hard land of the winter
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