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Thread: CANZUK

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    I kinda figured that out by myself even if I didn't have bad intentions. Since this simply doesn't fit the profile weof truly independent nations (for better or for worse).
    We are already four prosperous independent nations, and as our economies grow under free trade, and the free flow of our citizens, we will only become more independent.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We are already four prosperous independent nations, and as our economies grow under free trade, and the free flow of our citizens, we will only become more independent.
    Will look forward to seeing stories about this in the news which prove its more than simply and idea you had Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Will look forward to seeing stories about this in the news which prove its more than simply and idea you had Mole
    You know I respect you Lark, but consider, as the EU is breaking up, and it looks like Britain will not make a trade deal with the EU, and will simple join the WTO just like us. And the USA is depending on printing, owning, and controlling the Reserve Currency of the World, a slender reed, threatened by China abroad, and discord at home, and on the horizon are four sovereign countries, stable and prosperous, liberal democracies with human rights. One might think you would come on board.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post


    You know I respect you Lark, but consider, as the EU is breaking up, and it looks like Britain will not make a trade deal with the EU, and will simple join the WTO just like us. And the USA is depending on printing, owning, and controlling the Reserve Currency of the World, a slender reed, threatened by China abroad, and discord at home, and on the horizon are four sovereign countries, stable and prosperous, liberal democracies with human rights. One might think you would come on board.


    I am sorry but that is simply cheap Anglo propaganda for the most part. Especially since now without UK the union can finally consolidate itself, what wasn't really possible before. For me pro Brexit argument was always more of a pro EU argument on the long run. Especially because most EU countries are much more interconnected with it than UK ever was (currency, borders, laws, economy etc). Plus we started to clamp down on the radical politicians and foreign influence from authoritarian states that are undermining the system. Where I live "EUisation" is actually increasing, not decreasing. Therefore if the Democrat will take the office in a few days the odds of EU crash are basically 0. Since EU is vital for holding Russia under control, so that US can focus more on the Pacific side. After all this is basically how the union got created in the first place.



    As far as I am concerned you are more than welcome to make CANZUK, since all democracies have to consolidate into blocks in order to hold malign influences from abroad. Since interconnected democracies are much harder to undo than scattered democracies. Because that creates trade alternatives and countries can double check on each other's institutions in search for clear democratic erosion. Since there is someone out of the box to notice the problematic trends.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    You know I respect you Lark, but consider, as the EU is breaking up, and it looks like Britain will not make a trade deal with the EU, and will simple join the WTO just like us. And the USA is depending on printing, owning, and controlling the Reserve Currency of the World, a slender reed, threatened by China abroad, and discord at home, and on the horizon are four sovereign countries, stable and prosperous, liberal democracies with human rights. One might think you would come on board.
    I dont see any evidence at all that the EU is breaking up. What I do see is a protracted humbling of the UK when it finally dawns on them that their empire is gone and will never, ever, ever be returning, whether they engage in more self-injury, including the wholesale, firesale of the NHS, the only real post-imperial accomplish as a nation they've ever made. I'd be amused to watch this dumpster fire if I where not concerned about the likely turbulence and destruction that will follow until such time as the consequences of bad decision making are plain and undeniable to all, including those in the drug addled Westminister bubble. There's no way I'd be on board with any of that.

    Though this thread has made a number of concrete predictions and forecasts, lets check in periodically to see how far of base they've been, shall we?

    And if you're wrong about this Mole, who knows, maybe you could be wrong about a bunch of other things you've posted over the years. I guess we'll see soon enough.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    I am sorry but that is simply cheap Anglo propaganda for the most part. Especially since now without UK the union can finally consolidate itself, what wasn't really possible before. For me pro Brexit argument was always more of a pro EU argument on the long run. Especially because most EU countries are much more interconnected with it than UK ever was (currency, borders, laws, economy etc). Plus we started to clamp down on the radical politicians and foreign influence from authoritarian states that are undermining the system. Where I live "EUisation" is actually increasing, not decreasing. Therefore if the Democrat will take the office in a few days the odds of EU crash are basically 0. Since EU is vital for holding Russia under control, so that US can focus more on the Pacific side. After all this is basically how the union got created in the first place.



    As far as I am concerned you are more than welcome to make CANZUK, since all democracies have to consolidate into blocks in order to hold malign influences from abroad. Since interconnected democracies are much harder to undo than scattered democracies. Because that creates trade alternatives and countries can double check on each other's institutions in search for clear democratic erosion. Since there is someone out of the box to notice the problematic trends.
    The thing about Brexit and the so called UK independence agenda is that it was never really about Britain or independence from anything, it's largely an attempt at destroying larger post-nationalist political and economic arrangements.

    There's some pretty old fashioned thinking or rivalries, with the French, Germany, other nation states which are part of it, part of the old world imperial imagination but there's some shocking arrogance and narcissism involved here too, the idea that "without us, they cant last".

    This is not anything new. The British have thought this about basically every single state they have retreated from in disgrace, they didnt think that the ROI would last longer than two years and there's lots of evidence of serious, serious attempts at sabotage there and everywhere else that the British feel they've been embarrassed by historically. The ROI is still there though, its gone from strength to strength despite it all, to the point where even the royal family and some of the elites would prefer to be associated with there than with England, or "little england" in NI (ironically a plantation of scots historically).

    All of the nations which the westminister elite are still treating as rivals, France, Germany, Italy, they do not all appear like rack rent, broken down steptoe and son rag and bone men who cant pay their bills for the clubs they formerly used to belong to. They look pretty good actually. Better than Britain. The language barriers are largely the only things preventing mass emigration away from the UK, or England, a measure of that emigration happened already with the ex-pat communities in France, Spain, Italy who the English have seen fit to abandon/betray altogether.

    Though, none of that really gets to the heart of the matter, the elites in westminister want to be the supreme/only political class, no one for people to make comparisons with and say why dont they have it better than they do. If there is anything like the atrocious, squandering and incompetent governance it is at the national rather than the international level. Some of the people who voted for brexit mistakenly believed that doing so would focus attention on this reality and remove the excuses and ability of the elites to divert redirect public attention.

    The state of the anglo-sphere is a disgrace and they arent even embarrassed about it. Instead they're engaging in these ludicrous dreams. Maybe the politicians will sober up and dry out, kick the coke habits or the public will wise up and say enough of it but I'm not so sure, they sure seem to enjoy chugging the Kool Aid if Mole's anything to go by. Time is going to tell.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont see any evidence at all that the EU is breaking up. What I do see is a protracted humbling of the UK when it finally dawns on them that their empire is gone and will never, ever, ever be returning, whether they engage in more self-injury, including the wholesale, firesale of the NHS, the only real post-imperial accomplish as a nation they've ever made. I'd be amused to watch this dumpster fire if I where not concerned about the likely turbulence and destruction that will follow until such time as the consequences of bad decision making are plain and undeniable to all, including those in the drug addled Westminister bubble. There's no way I'd be on board with any of that.

    Though this thread has made a number of concrete predictions and forecasts, lets check in periodically to see how far of base they've been, shall we?

    And if you're wrong about this Mole, who knows, maybe you could be wrong about a bunch of other things you've posted over the years. I guess we'll see soon enough.


    To be honest I think that US vote will have major impact on all of this. Since defeat of Trump would change plenty in how all of this will play out. Because it will quiet down nationalistic talking points and remove certain options from the table. CANZUK can still happen but it will not be so nationalistic/traditional as in the case that Trump wins. Since at the end of the day US completely dwarfs other English speaking countries.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The thing about Brexit and the so called UK independence agenda is that it was never really about Britain or independence from anything, it's largely an attempt at destroying larger post-nationalist political and economic arrangements.

    There's some pretty old fashioned thinking or rivalries, with the French, Germany, other nation states which are part of it, part of the old world imperial imagination but there's some shocking arrogance and narcissism involved here too, the idea that "without us, they cant last".

    This is not anything new. The British have thought this about basically every single state they have retreated from in disgrace, they didnt think that the ROI would last longer than two years and there's lots of evidence of serious, serious attempts at sabotage there and everywhere else that the British feel they've been embarrassed by historically. The ROI is still there though, its gone from strength to strength despite it all, to the point where even the royal family and some of the elites would prefer to be associated with there than with England, or "little england" in NI (ironically a plantation of scots historically).

    All of the nations which the westminister elite are still treating as rivals, France, Germany, Italy, they do not all appear like rack rent, broken down steptoe and son rag and bone men who cant pay their bills for the clubs they formerly used to belong to. They look pretty good actually. Better than Britain. The language barriers are largely the only things preventing mass emigration away from the UK, or England, a measure of that emigration happened already with the ex-pat communities in France, Spain, Italy who the English have seen fit to abandon/betray altogether.

    Though, none of that really gets to the heart of the matter, the elites in westminister want to be the supreme/only political class, no one for people to make comparisons with and say why dont they have it better than they do. If there is anything like the atrocious, squandering and incompetent governance it is at the national rather than the international level. Some of the people who voted for brexit mistakenly believed that doing so would focus attention on this reality and remove the excuses and ability of the elites to divert redirect public attention.

    The state of the anglo-sphere is a disgrace and they arent even embarrassed about it. Instead they're engaging in these ludicrous dreams. Maybe the politicians will sober up and dry out, kick the coke habits or the public will wise up and say enough of it but I'm not so sure, they sure seem to enjoy chugging the Kool Aid if Mole's anything to go by. Time is going to tell.


    Well EU without UK can evidently work, possibly even better than with UK. Which was always a foreign element in the whole story.
    The EU has some consolidating/reforming to do but if that works out the union has a clear future. After all it already exists for decades, so the concept isn't ultra new anymore. What makes it harder to undo. Alter all currently UK has much larger inner mess than EU and no deal would hit it much more. Since the union is multiple times bigger in every regard (population, GDP, surface area ... etc). Therefore down to this day I am not really sure what Brexit should have achieved. Giving a finger to 27 countries that are evidently your biggest trade partner is kinda self harm in a way. But ok, this is kinda no longer really my problem if we don't get into global east-west tension.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    To be honest I think that US vote will have major impact on all of this. Since defeat of Trump would change plenty in how all of this will play out. Because it will quiet down nationalistic talking points and remove certain options from the table. CANZUK can still happen but it will not be so nationalistic/traditional as in the case that Trump wins. Since at the end of the day US completely dwarfs other English speaking countries.
    It does dwarf them but its an example of a supranational union and this is something that I think the stupid nationalists in the UK simply dont get, well, the ones that dont kid themselves that some sort of english speaking special relationship exists.

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