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  1. #271
    Armchair Explorer Doctor Anaximander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    Well, it was a weaker film (especially after TESB) but people didn't know there would be more + it could have just been a one-off, not an ongoing problem with SW in general.

    The Jabba sequence is probably the most interesting to me, and the rest was kinda eh whatever. It doesn't help when he's recycling the same plotlines / refurbishing old death stars.

    It's purely functional, it provides the resolution to the issues raised in the second film which was necessarily more provocative. In that, it succeeds, and it has a few interesting action sequences (like the speeders in the forest), but doesn't really add a lot of value beyond what we already had.



    it's funny to me how Star Wars fandom is secular, yet is also typically fundamentalist as much as any religion. They cling with fervor to what has gone before and go over it in excruciating detail trying to make it conform even when it sucks or is in desperate need of an overhaul / realignment. Talk about not letting go of the past or accepting art as a work in progress, where you can adjust things as you go to make them better.

    What is that old phrase by Emerson? A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds?

    Sometimes to save the patient, you have to break with what came before. At least TLJ tried to do that, although it really screwed the pooch by just not bothering to truly honor the tone while it did so, nor honor its own place as the established MIDDLE of a trilogy but basically only gave a crap about itself as a film.
    I think moving ahead with a new trilogy was probably the biggest mistake. The Skywalker saga was more or less resolved with those 6 original films. We didn't even really need the prequels but I am glad we got a Revenge of the Sith at least, flawed as it may be.

    I don't have as much of a problem with Disney making the standalone films though. I think there's a lot of good stories that can be told in that universe without having to focus on the major characters and families of the original saga. Take a nod from Knights of the Old Republic and make more shit set thousands of years ago, or hell, move forward a few hundred years. It's all too familial and intimate at this point. Star Trek has made a similar mistake in constantly going back and retreading old ground instead of actually moving forward with new themes and characters.

    Mando season 1 was the first thing to really work as a solid standalone with completely original characters, but we see even it is making similar mistakes in season 2 in having to once again tie everything back to old characters and conflicts. It's like they had this great premise, but they just couldn't help themselves and had to find a way to meander back to familiarity

  2. #272
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Anaximander View Post
    I think moving ahead with a new trilogy was probably the biggest mistake. The Skywalker saga was more or less resolved with those 6 original films. We didn't even really need the prequels but I am glad we got a Revenge of the Sith at least, flawed as it may be.
    Well, you did hit on it there -- "Skywalker saga." I was willing to allow the original characters cameos in the first film, as part of a transition phase... but what did they do? made it all about the same dumb old stuff again, just less adeptly. WE DIDN'T NEED MORE SKYWALKER. It's not the "secret ingredient," it's the residual poison that we're now overdosing on.

    I don't have as much of a problem with Disney making the standalone films though. I think there's a lot of good stories that can be told in that universe without having to focus on the major characters and families of the original saga. Take a nod from Knights of the Old Republic and make more shit set thousands of years ago, or hell, move forward a few hundred years. It's all too familial and intimate at this point. Star Trek has made a similar mistake in constantly going back and retreading old ground instead of actually moving forward with new themes and characters.
    Pretty much. They just need to get out of that era. And standalone films work. DC has had more luck with freestanding films. Solo was kind of a bomb (it was okay, just not worth making) -- they had no idea for a film, it was just a "Hey, let's make a young Han Solo film!" and simply packed it with explanations for all the stuff we already saw in the original SW trilogy, although we never asked for those explanations nor did we need them.

    This common problem of making films and shows to make money / capitalize on a property rather than having an actual story to tell is not just a SW thing, although maybe it's a Disney thing -- because I am feeling the same about the "Falcon & Winter Soldier" "series" for Disney/Marvel. They didn't really have a compelling story, they just wanted to apparently set up characters for later use and get them into position. It's all been a muddled mess and uncompelling, there is no real "story" there at least that has clearly materialized.

    Mando season 1 was the first thing to really work as a solid standalone with completely original characters, but we see even it is making similar mistakes in season 2 in having to once again tie everything back to old characters and conflicts. It's like they had this great premise, but they just couldn't help themselves and had to find a way to meander back to familiarity
    Yeah. I was okay with Ahsoka because it was so well-done (that one episode), but the best stuff was when it just dealt with characters in their own dramas. I really enjoyed the episode where Bill Burr ends up shooting his old commander unexpectedly -- all character driven and all following from prior history, and it's like they didn't care about where things were going, they just did it and let it drive the plot. The best shows seem to be that way, where characters do inconvenient things based on what we've seen or understood and the show doesn't try to reel it back to be safe or controllable.

    Everything about SW feels way too "managed" right now.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
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  3. #273
    Armchair Explorer Doctor Anaximander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    Yeah. I was okay with Ahsoka because it was so well-done (that one episode), but the best stuff was when it just dealt with characters in their own dramas. I really enjoyed the episode where Bill Burr ends up shooting his old commander unexpectedly -- all character driven and all following from prior history, and it's like they didn't care about where things were going, they just did it and let it drive the plot. The best shows seem to be that way, where characters do inconvenient things based on what we've seen or understood and the show doesn't try to reel it back to be safe or controllable.

    Everything about SW feels way too "managed" right now.
    I do love some Aksoka, I'll say that much. Probably one of my top 5 characters in the entire universe.

  4. #274
    Guardian of Ga'Hoole Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Hey, I'll respond to you guys later, but I'm glad you didn't take my rant posts too seriously. Sorry, I'm just really mad about Rise of Skywalker retconning or apologizing for everything I liked about the sequel trilogy.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi


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  5. #275
    Armchair Explorer Doctor Anaximander's Avatar
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    I feel you. That movie was a clusterfuck

    Rian Johnson and JJ seem like two kids playing. Rian pretends to do one thing, but then JJ is like "nuh uhh cuz I have a magic wizard shield!" "nah Rey is nobody!" "well palpatine was actually secretly alive the whole time and rey is his granddaughter!" They are like two kids playing with their star wars toys and arguing over the right way to play with them. I feel that's a good analogy for the Disney trilogy. Meanwhile Kathleen Kennedy is like the mom in the other room, too busy on the phone to be bothered with asking them to play nice.

  6. #276
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Anaximander View Post
    ... Meanwhile Kathleen Kennedy is like the mom in the other room, too busy on the phone to be bothered with asking them to play nice.
    She was probably also drinking blush wine out of the box, complaining about how much she hated being a mom and that she wanted to run off with some guy from Dreamworks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
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  7. #277
    Queer Coded Cat The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    She was probably also drinking blush wine out of the box, complaining about how much she hated being a mom and that she wanted to run off with some guy from Dreamworks.
    And to think this was the same Kathleen Kennedy that brought us the film adaptation of Congo.
    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...


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