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  1. #31
    Happy 2020! Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    So I guess this is just some semantic debate about what counts as science.

    The stuff you said is obvious and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. It's like you're not listening to me, just repeating certain things like I didn't say them already, and making arguments that are already addressed by earlier things I said.

    So having said that I don't really know what other point to make here.
    Ok, this is an awkward moment where I dont have much to say, really. Yeah, I have been repetitive, I know...
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  2. #32
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    This video is illuminating...

    First a mention that psychiatry is bad at understanding this stuff (spiritual emergency),
    And makes mention of a metaphorical view of the process, in terms of
    Plato's cave - watching flickers from a fire in a cave, ignorant of the outside world,
    And the one who travels outside of the cave and returns. Without integration -
    They appear crazy to the ones in the cave - they know nothing of this outside world
    (and who's keeping everyone in the cave?)
    But the world outside is real - more real than the consensus reality of the cave.

    So it is with the psychotic patient,
    They step outside of consensus reality,
    Immerse themselves in higher truths,
    And struggle against the backlash of ignorance,
    They are kept subdued, in an attempt to stop their progress,
    By whom? The ones in the cave, or the ones keeping them there?

    "We've got a lot invested in this fabricated reality,
    We don't want you going around and waking everyone up!
    So we're going to incapacitate you,
    Cut off your access to your own mind,
    Tell you you're crazy,
    And break your spirit.
    Then you will know -
    That you are as much a part of our reality as the rest of them."

    Interesting state and what to do.

  3. #33
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    No and now I feel jealous that I'm not an Ni dominant (even though people think I am and I occasionally consider it because my mind likes puzzles).
    I was just thinking, and I realised that you're quite likely right that this is an Ni thing. The only other function that would have anything similar, according to my guess, would be Ne.

    I was thinking about how, as an INFJ, I have a far greater awareness of my Fe use than I do of my Ni use. I thought, well, that's because Ni is kind of "invisible" so you can't really see it working. And I thought, I can see all my other functions as well, except for Ne. But sometimes I can see Ni and Ne more clearly. Ni really does work a lot on "a-ha!" moments, like mining for gold for a long time and then finally you find it and "eureka!", Ni can go looking for something in the mind and it might not know what it is but it's always searching until it finds it. And Ne comes alive for me at certain times when I'm generating lots of possibilities/inferences, perhaps in response to Ni's discovery.

    So what I'm describing in the OP may essentially be a months long process of searching, followed by a weeks long "a-ha!" "moment" (and these "episodes" do indeed contain a large number of a-ha moments). Perhaps Ne is the more "bipolar" one, but Ni runs a similar course. The other functions seem more consistent in their output, so they probably function at a more even level, as opposed to a low energy with occassional peaks of high energy.

  4. #34
    sıgnaʟ processıng ısoprene's Avatar
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    I can't say that I do, but this also sound familiar in may ways. The world never feels unreal or hyperreal to me. However, there are times where I will see, sense, or experience particular aspects of the world at a very intensified, or very reduced way. When I say intensified its more that I will process the sensory data I receive at much more detailed or faster pace than normal. My processing of this is already on the rather high end of this by default, but it does go up and down. It's like an extended awareness. For example, I can look at a tree and in an instant become "aware" that this tree has biological and biochemical processes happening in it at an extremely rapid pace. Phenolic monomers polymerizing to lignan, extending the tree upward, the slowed and hastened timeframe the tree experiences the world at, the seed that it came from and how all the information contained within it lead to the form it exsists in now, seemingly a sum greater than its original parts but at the same time this in many respects was already predetermined. Having all this information hit me at once can sometimes be rather strong and result in somataform-like feelings and sensations that I fail to adequtely describe. It does feel drug-like or similar to tripping, but I would not categorize it as such, it's just merely familiar. I've always been this way too even as a child, but the more I learn about the world the more agumented and detailed this becomes.
    It is our duty to create meaning.

    If only it were that simple.

    dec xoⱶe daÿ ʞ̇ɛẙn̂e bınuzɛ, ᴊys sɔᴛuse.
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  5. #35
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ısoprene View Post
    I can't say that I do, but this also sound familiar in may ways. The world never feels unreal or hyperreal to me. However, there are times where I will see, sense, or experience particular aspects of the world at a very intensified, or very reduced way. When I say intensified its more that I will process the sensory data I receive at much more detailed or faster pace than normal. My processing of this is already on the rather high end of this by default, but it does go up and down. It's like an extended awareness. For example, I can look at a tree and in an instant become "aware" that this tree has biological and biochemical processes happening in it at an extremely rapid pace. Phenolic monomers polymerizing to lignan, extending the tree upward, the slowed and hastened timeframe the tree experiences the world at, the seed that it came from and how all the information contained within it lead to the form it exsists in now, seemingly a sum greater than its original parts but at the same time this in many respects was already predetermined. Having all this information hit me at once can sometimes be rather strong and result in somataform-like feelings and sensations that I fail to adequtely describe. It does feel drug-like or similar to tripping, but I would not categorize it as such, it's just merely familiar. I've always been this way too even as a child, but the more I learn about the world the more agumented and detailed this becomes.
    I suppose that the equivalent version of this to what I'm describing is if you had an extended period of time where this awareness was sustained, rather than just a brief awareness.

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