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  1. #41
    Senior Member phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    Yes, now that I'm identifying as sx/sp and paying attention to this discussion, I like what you're saying here.

    I've always been mostly dismissive or even negligent about "social stuff": Ties of acquaintanceship, social obligations, etc. I was always a good and dutiful team player in the workplace etc., but only out of obligation and commitment. Once I put in what was owed, I was pretty dismissive about anything further.

    Meantime, I invested a lot in "special ties": Bonds of love, close friendship bonds, even a special work relationship like a particularly good boss or a good subordinate. I would give them 110 percent, ideally rewarding loyalty with loyalty, etc. I would even feel the same way about a special interest or calling or hobby. In other words, life was kind of gray for me overall, or even a pain in the ass, but once in a while some interest or connection would really stand out for me and I had to do that thing, at least for a while.

    I think Jung calls it an animus/anima attraction, which is usually described as a "soulmate" attraction. It can happen with a great love, a great friendship, or even a calling or job that really suits you. But I need to read up more about that particular Jungian concept--so far I have only encountered that idea in passing.

    However in the last 10 years I've actually tried to steer away from the attitude that I've described above (the idea of "anima attractions"). In the last 10 years, I've been focusing more on social stuff: I have been working on what I call my "Fe skills" and cultivating more "acquaintanceship ties"; and at the same time I have been downgrading my attention to "anima attractions." After two divorces and numerous changes in interests throughout my life, I've realized that those "anima attractions" can be misleading. They're good and worth following up on, but they aren't permanent and one can over-invest in them. They need to be treated with a measure of reserve, like anything else in life.

    Just my opinion, of course.
    The bulk just reminds of that nothing in life is permanent, except change and death. Although self awareness and mental plasticity exist, we are creatures of habit and familiarity feels comfortable. The path of least resistance. But the ego can feed on any narrative, often drama and conflict. Or memes. To each their own etcetera. The water is wet, sky is blue. Knawlidge.
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  2. #42
    Scary old man OldFolksBoogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    The bulk just reminds of that nothing in life is permanent, except change and death. Although self awareness and mental plasticity exist, we are creatures of habit and familiarity feels comfortable. The path of least resistance. But the ego can feed on any narrative, often drama and conflict. Or memes. To each their own etcetera. The water is wet, sky is blue. Knawlidge.
    True enough, I guess(?).

    You get a big attraction to someone or something: You project all kinds of positive things onto that person or thing. You bond, and you go through a honeymoon phase with it lasting anywhere from 6 months to 6 years.

    But the honeymoon wears off (the projection fades and reality takes over), and you get the "7-year itch." Hopefully "habit and familiarity" with your rut will continue to keep you content and happy past that point. "The path of least resistance," as you said.

    But sometimes as the honeymoon wears off, your eyes are opened and you realize that you've committed yourself to someone or something that is very badly flawed. And then, depending on the nature of the commitment, it can be a lot of drama and upset to fight and claw your way out of the rut and back to freedom. Or you can stay in the rut and stagnate: You just put up with your role as enabler to some abusive spouse or fight to stay afloat in some dead-end career, and you work on your endurance skills--try to outlast the situation. Or something like that.

    That's basically how I experienced the sx/sp mindset.

    [Edited to add:] Anyway, as I suggested a previous post, the answer in my case was to be more reserved toward these "anima attractions," that is, test them out more: Try to see past the projection and get at the reality.

    Also, commit more slowly, try out alternatives, and be quicker to jump ship when problems arise. As I said, I found that my main problems in life arose from overcommitment based on projection. So reducing the level and speed of commitment has helped.
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  3. #43
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenetta View Post
    Oh the mysterious of how I fuck up. I have bizarre ways of making mistakes. I DID copy and paste, but the beginning magically disappeared when I typed in the hyperlink. I saw that and went back to edit. Every time I register for something online I always make a weird mistake like a wrong email address or something. I identify as sx/sp, along with the descriptions, so the mysteries abound.
    I'm sure it was just autocorrect then because it always wants to change it to Sx/So.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell

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  4. #44
    A Bittersweet Symphony... The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    I'm sure it was just autocorrect then because it always wants to change it to Sx/So.
    auto correct is racist.
    I am the Cat who walks by himself; and all places are alike to me...
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  5. #45
    mene mene tekel upharsin Obfuscate's Avatar
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    How do you experience relationships in general if you are SX?

    umm... as opposed to what? not experiencing a relationship?

    What differs, and in what way do they differ from other instincts?

    differs from what? i honestly can't say what other people experience with certainty...

    How would you describe it?

    is this the first question rephrased?

    What makes it SX?

    a relationship? i don't feel that relationships can be classified this way...

    How do you value them?

    on a case by case basis...

    What do you seek in and from these individuals?

    which individuals?


    i wouldn't mind responding, but the format of your questions isn't one that i know how to respond to...
    "What is crooked cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted."
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  6. #46
    Cynical Existentialist Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    How do you experience relationships in general if you are SX?

    umm... as opposed to what? not experiencing a relationship?

    What differs, and in what way do they differ from other instincts?

    differs from what? i honestly can't say what other people experience with certainty...

    How would you describe it?

    is this the first question rephrased?

    What makes it SX?

    a relationship? i don't feel that relationships can be classified this way...

    How do you value them?

    on a case by case basis...

    What do you seek in and from these individuals?

    which individuals?

    i wouldn't mind responding, but the format of your questions isn't one that i know how to respond to...
    Check the link in OP- it is differentiated there, as well as in other sites. I had thought the differentiation was ridiculous till I observed some differences that do exist myself. How each variant treats the relationship, but mostly what they value from it. You cannot answer for others, only yourself.

    A common difference I noted (that may be a more extreme, and thus more visible and notable example) between my type and those which aren't my type (especially sx-lasts) is that there seems to be a clash in 'priorities' and how we view and define a relationship that I observe in myself and others; such as sp-firsts such as myself generally tending towards putting stability, career, etc first before relationships. Each of us view the other as doing things backwards- due to that difference in priority. Enneagram and childhood influences/environmental influences also come into play, but there is that general trend.

    It is fascinating.
    WHY ARE THERE SHEEP HERE?
    A cleric who acts like a rogue whose patron might as well be a warlock's
    and whose proficiency spread resembles a wizard's.

  7. #47
    Cynical Existentialist Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFolksBoogie View Post
    True enough, I guess(?).

    You get a big attraction to someone or something: You project all kinds of positive things onto that person or thing. You bond, and you go through a honeymoon phase with it lasting anywhere from 6 months to 6 years.

    But the honeymoon wears off (the projection fades and reality takes over), and you get the "7-year itch." Hopefully "habit and familiarity" with your rut will continue to keep you content and happy past that point. "The path of least resistance," as you said.

    But sometimes as the honeymoon wears off, your eyes are opened and you realize that you've committed yourself to someone or something that is very badly flawed. And then, depending on the nature of the commitment, it can be a lot of drama and upset to fight and claw your way out of the rut and back to freedom. Or you can stay in the rut and stagnate: You just put up with your role as enabler to some abusive spouse or fight to stay afloat in some dead-end career, and you work on your endurance skills--try to outlast the situation. Or something like that.

    That's basically how I experienced the sx/sp mindset.
    Very interesting. Your answers contain similar points to other sx-firsts I've asked.


    [Edited to add:] Anyway, as I suggested a previous post, the answer in my case was to be more reserved toward these "anima attractions," that is, test them out more: Try to see past the projection and get at the reality.

    Also, commit more slowly, try out alternatives, and be quicker to jump ship when problems arise. As I said, I found that my main problems in life arose from overcommitment based on projection. So reducing the level and speed of commitment has helped.
    I have asked others who I've typed, and who self-types as sx-first offsite, as well as those older than me. They mention very similar things you do, which is quite fascinating. There seems to be a general trend here, though I have found it difficult to put into words myself- it is not something I personally experience. The general impression I gather is that sx can have a relationship 'for the sake of a relationship', that generally gets tempered as the sx individual gets older (being more careful, selective, etc), just as how you've described it. sx seems to be a very relational function. This is all very interesting. Thank you for all your answers.
    WHY ARE THERE SHEEP HERE?
    A cleric who acts like a rogue whose patron might as well be a warlock's
    and whose proficiency spread resembles a wizard's.

  8. #48
    mene mene tekel upharsin Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    Check the link in OP- it is differentiated there, as well as in other sites. I had thought the differentiation was ridiculous till I observed some differences that do exist myself. How each variant treats the relationship, but mostly what they value from it. You cannot answer for others, only yourself.

    A common difference I noted (that may be a more extreme, and thus more visible and notable example) between my type and those which aren't my type (especially sx-lasts) is that there seems to be a clash in 'priorities' and how we view and define a relationship that I observe in myself and others; such as sp-firsts such as myself generally tending towards putting stability, career, etc first before relationships. Each of us view the other as doing things backwards- due to that difference in priority. Enneagram and childhood influences/environmental influences also come into play, but there is that general trend.

    It is fascinating.
    i understand what instinctual varients are... i skimmed your link, and that seems to be the subject... the problem i ran into was the phrasing of your questions.. if you respond to each question i asked, i would be able to awnser perhaps...
    "What is crooked cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted."

  9. #49
    Cynical Existentialist Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    i understand what instinctual varients are... i skimmed your link, and that seems to be the subject... the problem i ran into was the phrasing of your questions.. if you respond to each question i asked, i would be able to awnser perhaps...
    Then we are at a standstill. Your questions are exactly the ones I'm asking; if there is any distinction at all, and if present, what are they? You are right when you ask "Is this the first question rephrased?" if by 'this' you meant your questions. I am here with questions, myself. In that instance,


    What makes it SX?

    a relationship? i don't feel that relationships can be classified this way...
    If you feel they cannot be, why?


    What do you seek in and from these individuals?

    which individuals?
    Since you do not differentiate between individuals nor do you seem to pinpoint which individuals you specifically have a stronger 'sx attraction' to over others, then you can answer for the relationships you have in general with individuals you do form a relationship with. In other words, what do you seek in a relationship? (In accordance to OP- I mean this in general- friendships, family, etc- any kind of relationship)
    WHY ARE THERE SHEEP HERE?
    A cleric who acts like a rogue whose patron might as well be a warlock's
    and whose proficiency spread resembles a wizard's.

  10. #50
    mene mene tekel upharsin Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Then we are at a standstill. Your questions are exactly the ones I'm asking; if there is any distinction at all, and if present, what are they? You are right when you ask "Is this the first question rephrased?" if by 'this' you meant your questions. I am here with questions, myself. In that instance,

    my questions are to clarify what you mean, and are not about instinctual variants or your relationships... they are very specifically "what does this mean?", "what is the context?", "what type of relationship?", etc sort of questions... in short, i am not asking what you are asking...

    If you feel they cannot be, why?

    this is like asking why granite can't be classified as a particular sort of fruit... it is because relationships aren't people; they are an interplay between individuals... the individuals involved might have matching or diverse social instincts, but relationships aren't people... relationships don't have their own hopes, fears, personalities, goals, etc...

    Since you do not differentiate between individuals nor do you seem to pinpoint which individuals you specifically have a stronger 'sx attraction' to over others, then you can answer for the relationships you have in general with individuals you do form a relationship with. In other words, what do you seek in a relationship? (In accordance to OP- I mean this in general- friendships, family, etc- any kind of relationship)

    i am able to differentiate between indviduals; that is what prompted me to seek clarification initially... i wasn't asked to identify relationships in which i felt a stronger sx connection... again, that was the point of seeking clarification: to identify exactly what you were asking...

    what i seek in a relationship varies based upon the nature of the relationship, in addition to a host of other factors...

    the problem we are reaching is that you seem to think of this matter as one in which an individual is most likely to have a blanket approach they apply to all relationships... my confusion is because my approach is highly specific to circumstance... i don't seek the same thing from all relationships, nor do i think of them as all that similar... perhaps that is because you are so first and i am sx first? in any case, your questions are too broad for me to really apply to anything in my experience...

    it seems you are unable or unwilling to refine them in a way that i am able to apply them... perhaps we are at an impasse...
    "What is crooked cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted."
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