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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I do use type methods/models, ones I've pieced together from the information I've intaken and the insight I've generated regarding type. I'm much better at this than you seem to be implying (though I'm not implying that I don't make mistakes).
    You lost the right to be taken seriously when you posted this nonsense:

    an ST parent with an NF child rarely happens.
    Carry on.
    Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

  2. #22
    Now with less salt. Methylene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Symphony View Post
    I mean, I am sure environmental factors play a part in type, but I do not think type is genetic.

    Although my mother is difficult to type due to her mental illness, me and a friend scrummaging through it agree that moreless she is likely an INFx. Leaning to INFP. My grandfather is a very obvious STJ. My brother typed through as ISTP. But as noted here I have somehow ended up in a room of mostly, most likely introverts, as an extravert. None of them understand my desire to be outwardly connected and why interactions matters SO MUCH to me. I know they struggle with my indecisive nature a lot of times. So there is a disconnect between what type I am and what type my family is. My brother has the biggest divide, however. Not a damn one of us get him and not sure I want to either. He's a domineering asshole. Thinks he can do whatever he wants. On his time. Thinks he knows everything.

    But anywho. I think an argument could be made that the environment effects your ENNEAGRAM type moreso than your MBTI type. the way you grow up heavily impacts what enneagram you tend to lean towards.
    Exactly. Speaking from personal experience and general psychology, it's the way your parents raise you and the experiences you have as a child/young teen which play the most in determining your personality. There still is some kind of genetic correlation, but it mostly is the environment and personal experience which "activate" what is potentially written in your DNA.
    I know how I turned out to be an NTP. My parents, ENFJ mom born from an ISFP granny and an NTJ born from an STJ grandfather, raised me to have an interest in science, engineering and to be extremely goal and career oriented, but also anxious about everything (there we go with the 639/631 type). They've always encouraged me to follow my interest in science since kindergarten, when I learnt to read from drugs package inserts, more than humanities or people. As a child and a teen, I've always shown signs of weak Fe, I've always been isolated by other people and by reaction I didn't want to pursue them. Easy weak Fe and strong Ti.
    In spite of my family, I've always rebelled against the Ni mindset of "we have a feeling how this is gonna go, so listen to us", preferring a more open ended approach to life. In fact, when I was younger I had a shitload of Se, together with Ne, they were mostly indifferentiated (as a 13 yo I strongly tested as ISTP, and initially felt it as the right type, but what happened later made me drop Se and left me with the Ne I had already shown) and when I was younger I was the rebellious one in the house (Pe 6cp as opposed to Je).
    It's too simplicistic to think a direct correlation between genetics and personality. It would be fascinating, but we're mixing science and pseudoscience by doing so, and not considering years and years of life.

    I know plenty of NFPs who rebelled against ST parents and always felt out of place within their family.

    Of course their type influences the way they raise you and what you could turn out to be but it's not just one possibility.

    And we've officially hijacked this thread.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methylene View Post
    Of course their type influences the way they raise you and what you could turn out to be but it's not just one possibility.

    There was a guy in this forum who nearly everyone thought was a poster boy ENTJ. I never bought it for a minute despite what the crowd thought. I still recall saying out loud, "If this guy isn't an ENFP I'll eat my hat." I went to find his posting history - all the way to the beginning. In a post, he was telling people he was trying to figure out whether he was ENFP or ENFJ and that his STJ father had "trained him" to be ENTJ. Here's a guy who knew he wasn't ENTJ, and the kid was probably a beaten down idealist by a hardcore military type father who refused to tolerate any of his aspirations. The kid had one of the worst chips on his shoulder (courtesy of Daddy, no doubt) but knowing what his dad was like, it all made sense in the end why he was behaving the way he was. Did I ever question the guy about his type in public? No. I had better things to do than fuck with a kid who was probably abused by a dickhead father.
    Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

  4. #24
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You lost the right to be taken seriously when you posted this nonsense:



    Carry on.
    ...unless it turns out that I'm right.

    I was probably too definitive in my phrasing, given that it hasn't been demonstrated conclusively yet, but it's what my investigations are pointing to.
    the lone star flies alone

  5. #25
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Genetics are weird and what is hereditary and what isn't sure isn't clear.

    It could be that the stack is genetic, but the order isn't, so that someone could be a ENTJ or an ISFP based upon environmental factors, but I doubt it.

    I suspect it is more likely we are born with a stack order, but the orientation is environmental, so a person could be Nx Tx, bu either Ni Te or Ne Ti, but that might be wrong as well.

    We might just completely inherit the stack, with many outcomes possible. My parents are ISTJ dad and ENFP mom, but 3 of the 4 children are Fe users and two are Ne doms. But I am also the only blonde and don't have blonde parents, and am 5 inches taller than my father, when no one in the family was ever as tall as me, ever or since.
    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
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    ― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

  6. #26
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Genetics are weird and what is hereditary and what isn't sure isn't clear.

    It could be that the stack is genetic, but the order isn't, so that someone could be a ENTJ or an ISFP based upon environmental factors, but I doubt it.

    I suspect it is more likely we are born with a stack order, but the orientation is environmental, so a person could be Nx Tx, bu either Ni Te or Ne Ti, but that might be wrong as well.

    We might just completely inherit the stack, with many outcomes possible. My parents are ISTJ dad and ENFP mom, but 3 of the 4 children are Fe users and two are Ne doms. But I am also the only blonde and don't have blonde parents, and am 5 inches taller than my father, when no one in the family was ever as tall as me, ever or since.
    My hunch is that it's the exact type which is inhereted. There will also be variations on the type in terms of the other types in the family, in terms of how the person differs from others of the same type. I'm very confident in saying that it's not random, as the anecdotal evidence in forum threads would suggest.

    For example, my father is INTJ, and I'm an INFJ who has good ability in NT areas. My mother and sister are both ENFP, and there is INFJ (male) on my mother's side of the family, but there is also ESFP on my mother's side of the family, and I happen to get on well with ESFPs.
    the lone star flies alone

  7. #27
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    My hunch is that it's the exact type which is inhereted. There will also be variations on the type in terms of the other types in the family, in terms of how the person differs from others of the same type. I'm very confident in saying that it's not random, as the anecdotal evidence in forum threads would suggest.

    For example, my father is INTJ, and I'm an INFJ who has good ability in NT areas. My mother and sister are both ENFP, and there is INFJ (male) on my mother's side of the family, but there is also ESFP on my mother's side of the family, and I happen to get on well with ESFPs.
    Because your personal experience and your personal observations and 'investigations' trump everyone elses' data, and everyone elses' data is incorrect because it does not match your own experiences and intuitive belief on how everything plays out. Reject everything that doesn't match what you believe to be true; the typing is obviously wrong since it doesn't match your theory. It's a good way to keep your theory nice and tidy.

    Please at least extend the courtesy of not putting peoples' typing of their parents/relations into question, like you did at the start of this thread, given this is a pet theory of yours with no backing whatsoever. What a mess this thread has turned into, given it was supposed to be about the OP's type. You question the OP's parents' typing? Your own 'data' is less anecdotal than anyone elses' on here? Heck, I may as well question your own typing of your parents and grandparents and your own ability to type. See how that works?

    @fidelia @Coriolis perhaps most of this thread (obviously including my own comment here) should be turned into a new thread about genetics or put in the off-topic thread.
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  8. #28
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Because your personal experience and your personal observations and 'investigations' trump everyone elses' data, and everyone elses' data is incorrect because it does not match your own experiences and intuitive belief on how everything plays out. Reject everything that doesn't match what you believe to be true; the typing is obviously wrong since it doesn't match your theory. It's a good way to keep your theory nice and tidy.

    Please at least extend the courtesy of not putting peoples' typing of their parents/relations into question, like you did at the start of this thread, given this is a pet theory of yours with no backing whatsoever. What a mess this thread has turned into, given it was supposed to be about the OP's type. You question the OP's parents' typing? Your own 'data' is less anecdotal than anyone elses' on here? Heck, I may as well question your own typing of your parents and grandparents and your own ability to type. See how that works?

    @fidelia @Coriolis perhaps most of this thread (obviously including my own comment here) should be turned into a new thread about genetics or put in the off-topic thread.
    Yeah I only meant to point out the inconsistency of listing someone else's type while questioning your own, but that was cleared up (it wasn't their own typing).

    I think you'll find that most people don't actually know how to type properly, but again, time will tell what the truth is once we get valid data.
    the lone star flies alone

  9. #29
    Member Vendrah's Avatar
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    Well, Im going to answer the OP and this little discussion. The discussion is coming first.

    I know this is personal experience, but I have rambled a lot on MBTI statistics and I have not found any of them supporting type heritage. The same for enviromental heritage, although in this case there is some controversy, since people who claim that type is unchangable tends to support that the enviroment dont change what people truly are, but rather creates some adaptive behaviours that disappears when the enviroment demand disappears or remain as a trauma, not as a part of a person. I prefer this line of thinking while typing. And there are people who claim that type is changable , they tend to support that the enviroment truly change people recreating their personality. Also, I already had read long time ago some people (Im a little bit lazy to search for it again) saying that the fathers and mothers type has nothing to do with the childs type and a tons of comments saying "yes, my family is like that too". I am one of these guys with that personal experience too.

    Getting back on topic, Gabby, there is a little mistake in MBTI community that the type descriptions mostly lead you to think that perceivers cant plan (like they are forbidden to) or that perceivers cant get organized. Thats not entirely true, the plan part is not true at all. You are NOT forbidden to plan because you are a "P" type. I even already watched shows or movies with P types being full of plans.

    I think you dont like uncertainty because it naturally generates a little bit of anxiety and you dont like the anxiety because you have anxiety issues. Since you dont like uncertainty you will want to be prepared for things, because being prepared reduces anxiety. So, you not liking uncertainty and being prepared is more linked to an issue than to personality trait. Despite these traits, the only things that supports NFJs thing is being organized.

    I dont see you liking having and pursuing "one big vision" (or a family of big visions), although you might think you do because you take uncertainty out, but that only happens because of the anxiety issues. You seem more on the indecisive side, with having rather some plans and freedom to change (so you wont get anxious and feel safe) instead of one single plan. So, I think you are INFP, weirdly organized, that dislikes uncertainty and have always a plan because of anxiety issues.
    Last edited by Vendrah; 07-28-2019 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Post was incomplete

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