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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novella View Post
    Amberiat, assumptions abound. You need to review your sign off signature, it's contradicting your message.
    Do you have an actual argument?
    Johari | Nohari

    Moving forward, put aside all unnecessary preconceptions, eliminate all biases, analyze all the facts without letting external influences cloud your better judgement and put together a coherent picture of the truth like a jigsaw puzzle, you have the pieces you need, the only thing left to do is to learn how to put them together properly.

  2. #22
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    A lot of people are awful though

  3. #23
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
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    I think it's still as simple as people not looking deeply into 4sx descriptions specifically. It's easy to mistype as a 4 if you just take a test or read more generic type 4 descriptions (minus any instinctual parts), and then it's easy to type as sx-dom if you read more generic sx descriptions and associate sx- with the more glamorized version of what it stands for. [Or maybe more accurately: the sometimes indirect implications that sx-last is all sorts of negative boring things that are terrible to be]. Too, with 4 specifically, an online psych forum is already going to draw a lot of the more lonely misfits, who almost all will identify with some of the core issues of a 4 to a degree.

    Though I did mistype as 4 for a while, I never in my life considered sx dom -- most especially sx- as tied to 4. My reasons for the 4 mistype were that, while I never related to having a drive to be unique (which is funnily enough the main element of 4), I did relate to feeling different, something wrong, ashamed, envious. Though for a while when I first knew about enneagram I never considered 4 (due to not relating to the drama/ I'm-so-special element -- because I knew everyone felt that way in some way -- I ultimately landed on it for a number of years because ironically I delved a lot more into it and overanalyzed to the extent that I passed over the really crucial elements!!!! Which are not me - I have such a stronger urge to unite with people, not emphasize differences, and seek out common ground -- assuming I'm healthy, that is).

    So I mean, I don't really understand why people would be drawn to 4sx specifically, but I do get why a lot of people would relate to what is written about 4 in general.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #24
    Senior Member mgbradsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amberiat View Post
    Do you have an actual argument?
    I think Novella was pointing out that you said some pretty unflattering things about 3 different types in your post, things that might be somewhat offensive to a large number of people, and you said them in the context of a signature that suggests we all seek truth in an unbiased manner.

    It was probably more of an observation than an argument. I suspect Novella isn’t here to argue at all, maybe just be heard and understood.
    ”Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."
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  5. #25
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    This is a sensitive topic because so many people type as or identify with the archetype of e4. I don't want this thread to be one conflict after another, so if it gets heated, I encourage everyone to pause, step back, and take further interactions elsewhere privately. Also, say sorry when you need to.

    The thing about personality is that people mistake it for identity when in fact it is just a structure that runs in the background of who you are and better explains how you are. Any type can be original, unique, and creative, and everyone has pain that they identify with, and most people can relate to feeling inferior or wanting what they don't have, but none of these things are what type 4 is at the core.

    4s cannot handle being like everyone else because it makes them feel insignificant. This is why they want to be "unique" or are attention seeking. They do not feel like they are anything unless they are actively individuating from those around them. They want to be differentiated and actually want to be misunderstood, even though it hurts, because that is what their entire identity is based on.

    "People don't understand me."
    "You wouldn't get it."
    "No, that's not exactly it".
    "You don't even know me."

    It is this suffering that they are addicted to, and when that isn't present in an apparent way, they will find something to long for, something that they don't have in order to cling to this sense of lack and alienation because they are dependent upon being frustrated with current conditions (specifically in relation to their primary instinct). If they get to a place where they feel content, they lose the beauty of suffering and become like everyone else, which means that they lose their identity.

    The sexual 4 needs frustration in their intimate connections and with their sexual appeal/energetic draw. This is why they idealize love, because as long as they imagine what it is that would "complete" them, no one will ever measure up for long and they can continue with their tragic dissatisfaction. That is why they are prone to push-pull dynamics and will end relationships only to draw the other back in. They long for the other when the other is away because they escape into their internal landscape of fantasy and idealize the other. When they are with the other, reality doesn't measure up to their fantasy and they get frustrated. In order to maintain that whole "Nobody understands me and I'll never have what I need!" thing, they may cause conflict just to heat things up, which can look like angry dramatic outbursts. This gets them the attention that they so crave and keeps the suffering going.

    In reality, it's not nearly as glamorous a type as people think it is. To be fair, no type is glamorous, but no type is as misunderstood as e4, which honestly just makes all the 4s even more "satisfied" because it ensures the frustration of being misunderstood and gives them wiggle room to squirm away from any box with a label, allowing room for constant differentiation.
    '“Sometimes I think I have felt everything I'm ever gonna feel.
    And from here on out, I'm not gonna feel anything new.

    Just lesser versions of what I've already felt.

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