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    Post Are Men in Physics Discriminated?

    Last edited by Lib; 10-14-2018 at 05:07 PM.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    There is much more to being hired in academia than citations (or even publications), or at least there should be. This is actually something I ran into when I applied to an academic position several years ago. Since I have not been working in academia, I don't have anywhere near the publications/citations record of someone who has. What I do have is an extensive network of contacts in industry and government, a track record of successful proposal writing (bringing in money), and experience managing the research efforts of a small and diverse team. And no, no one cut me any slack for any of that, or for being female. They hired a guy with far less experience . . . and more publications.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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    That is pretty sad. No matter the gender, I think whoever can display the most competence, experience, education, down to the business attire and appearance.. should be the one who gets the job, man or woman.

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    I can't find the paper but somebody in the field keeps citing to me how in academic settings intern hiring skews towards women when given the same qualifications. Unfortunately this is because it's creepy old dudes choosing between having a lady work under him or a man, choose a lady for a number of reasons... perceived controllability, sexy reasons, etc. There's all kinds of discrimination, sometimes when it looks positive, it may not be.
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    Positive discrimination exists.

    But it's not necessarily for a decent motive and certainly not always one the recipient wants.
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    Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students | PNAS

    Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students

    Abstract

    Despite efforts to recruit and retain more women, a stark gender disparity persists within academic science. Abundant research has demonstrated gender bias in many demographic groups, but has yet to experimentally investigate whether science faculty exhibit a bias against female students that could contribute to the gender disparity in academic science. In a randomized double-blind study (n = 127), science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student—who was randomly assigned either a male or female name—for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant. The gender of the faculty participants did not affect responses, such that female and male faculty were equally likely to exhibit bias against the female student. Mediation analyses indicated that the female student was less likely to be hired because she was viewed as less competent. We also assessed faculty participants’ preexisting subtle bias against women using a standard instrument and found that preexisting subtle bias against women played a moderating role, such that subtle bias against women was associated with less support for the female student, but was unrelated to reactions to the male student. These results suggest that interventions addressing faculty gender bias might advance the goal of increasing the participation of women in science.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    Yes, I actually experienced some kind of bias against me being a woman with a technical background. I wouldn't dare to say that I was ever deprived from opportunities because of that, though.

    Yet, I don't support quotas, because positive discrimination could also be demeaning as others already mentioned.
    If you're happy with implicit bias, that's your choice to be perceived as a second class citizen.

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    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I can't find the paper but somebody in the field keeps citing to me how in academic settings intern hiring skews towards women when given the same qualifications. Unfortunately this is because it's creepy old dudes choosing between having a lady work under him or a man, choose a lady for a number of reasons... perceived controllability, sexy reasons, etc. There's all kinds of discrimination, sometimes when it looks positive, it may not be.
    Does the study actually say it’s creepy old dudes hiring women because of bewbs and controllability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    Does the study actually say it’s creepy old dudes hiring women because of bewbs and controllability?
    Like I said, this was all second hand, I'm sure a lot of the interpretation was downstream. But that interpretation sounds plausible from what I know about academic types.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    I'm not happy with any kind of biases, couldn't make this any clearer. My concern is where the positive discrimination begins. Not supporting this guy and his crusade against female scientists who were selected instead of him.

    Do you think that authors of publications deliberately don't cite studies with female authors? If that's true, it begs for positive discrimination, but it by itself is much more disturbing than just sexism. It means that the scientific field puts sex above facts which is a very serious accusation.
    What's your solution to combat implicit bias?

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