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  1. #1
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    Default The Illusion of Time

    We perceive the Sun going round the Earth and we know this is an illusion. In the same way, according to quantum mechanics and relativity, our perception of time is also an illusion.
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    ubertypsch Lib's Avatar
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    Actually, time is moving in one direction so it's not an illusion. It's because of entropy, which is also called the arrow of time - total entropy is the only quantity that cannot be reversed to a previous state. The scale of time can be quite different because locally entropy is increasing at different speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    Actually, time is moving in one direction so it's not an illusion. It's because of entropy, which is also called the arrow of time - total entropy is the only quantity that cannot be reversed to a previous state. The scale of time can be quite different because locally entropy is increasing at different speed.
    We perceive time as universal,with a universal now, and we perceive clocks as rinning at the same speed. All are illusions of perception.
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    ubertypsch Lib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We perceive time as universal,with a universal now, and we perceive clocks as rinning at the same speed. All are illusions of perception.
    It's not all illusions of perception - what you perceive is very real. If time is an illusion then we are an illusion too because our existence corresponds to a certain state of entropy, i.e. certain time. Time scales are relative to one another but it doesn't make them invalid, only negligible in some cases. For example, the timescale of a diamond degradation is much different than the timescale of a human life put under the same condition.

    The fact that you are not able to perceive everything doesn't mean that what you experience is not real. But the interpretation of the perceived information could be illusory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    It's not all illusions of perception - what you perceive is very real. If time is an illusion then we are an illusion too because our existence corresponds to a certain state of entropy, i.e. certain time. Time scales are relative to one another but it doesn't make them invalid, only negligible in some cases. For example, the timescale of a diamond degradation is much different than the timescale of a human life put under the same condition. The fact that you are not able to perceive everything doesn't mean that what you experience is not real. But the interpretation of the perceived information could be illusory.
    Although we know Newtonian physics is a perceptual illusion, it can get us to the Moon and back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    It's not all illusions of perception - what you perceive is very real. If time is an illusion then we are an illusion too because our existence corresponds to a certain state of entropy, i.e. certain time. Time scales are relative to one another but it doesn't make them invalid, only negligible in some cases. For example, the timescale of a diamond degradation is much different than the timescale of a human life put under the same condition. The fact that you are not able to perceive everything doesn't mean that what you experience is not real. But the interpretation of the perceived information could be illusory.
    Tale a new pack of cards - it has low entropy. Now shuffle the cards and the entropy increases, we have the same number of cards in the same pack. So entropy itself is a perceptuall illusion.

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    ubertypsch Lib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Although we know Newtonian physics is a perceptual illusion, it can get us to the Moon and back.
    Actually, QM mathematics demonstrated that Newtonian physics is describing the macroword reality, with certain simplification applied to earth mainly the concerning absoluteness of time and space, almost perfectly! Newton himself noticed that the notions of time and space as absolute are not necessarily true in a broader scale. He was focused on describing how things work so absolute time and space gave him a theoretical foundation to describe what he sees. No other person had achieved so much in describing so realistically the natural world and giving the tools to create technology and other, more broad theories, so his work and deductions are as farthest from illusion as is humanly possible.

    You might wanna define illusion first before trashing Newton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lib View Post
    Actually, QM mathematics demonstrated that Newtonian physics is describing the macroword reality, with certain simplification applied to earth mainly the concerning absoluteness of time and space, almost perfectly! Newton himself noticed that the notions of time and space as absolute are not necessarily true in a broader scale. He was focused on describing how things work so absolute time and space gave him a theoretical foundation to describe what he sees. No other person had achieved so much in describing so realistically the natural world and giving the tools to create technology and other, more broad theories, so his work and deductions are as farthest from illusion as is humanly possible.

    You might wanna define illusion first before trashing Newton.
    Einstein trashed Newton. Are you afraid I might trash you?

    Newton is visual man, while Einstein is aural man. The ear has replaced the eye.

    Quantum mechanics is about resonance, it is about the ear rather than the eye.

    You to can't see your way clear to agree with me, but you could listen to the sound of my voice. How would you feel?

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    ubertypsch Lib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Tale a new pack of cards - it has low entropy. Now shuffle the cards and the entropy increases, we have the same number of cards in the same pack. So entropy itself is a perceptuall illusion.
    That's not entropy

  10. #10
    ubertypsch Lib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Einstein trashed Newton. Are you afraid I might trash you?

    Newton is visual man, while Einstein is aural man. The ear has replaced the eye.

    Quantum mechanics is about resonance, it is about the ear rather than the eye.

    You to can't see your way clear to agree with me, but you could listen to the sound of my voice. How would you feel?
    Einstein had never trashed Newton. In fact, he questioned the absoluteness of time and space based on some texts where Newton himself suggested that time and space must be infinite.

    I don't understand your analogy about sight and hearing. Einstein was having very realistic imagination in pictures for which reason he could spot contradictions very easily. If you are trying to say that Einstein was better with 'waves' then you are wrong.

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