If antidepresent commercials were honest

[Smilephantomhive]

lol

 

[tkae.]

After 1:05 it got extremely inaccurate. It also wasn't even that funny. So...

My experience is that people refuse to accept that they might benefit from antidepressants, and so I don't really see what the point of this video was. I don't even really see what the point of antidepressant commercials are.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Side effects may include death

 

[Smilephantomhive]

After 1:05 it got extremely inaccurate. It also wasn't even that funny. So...

My experience is that people refuse to accept that they might benefit from antidepressants, and so I don't really see what the point of this video was. I don't even really see what the point of antidepressant commercials are.

How so?

Side effects may include death

Id rather die than have depression.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

 

[Deprecator]

My experience is that people refuse to accept that they might benefit from antidepressants

My experience is that people refuse to accept that some people might not benefit at all from antidepressants.

I don't really see what the point of this video was.

The point of the video was mock the use of SSRI's by mentioning its questionable efficacy and wacky theory behind its use. If SSRI's are the cure for depression then I'm not going to be talking to my doctor any time soon, but if ideal female company and steak dinners suddenly became the clinical cure for depression then I'd be having all symptoms listed in the video faster than you can blink. In other words, the 'chemical imbalance' theory isn't supported by any lab work done before or after the use of medication; it's all fancy guess work and theory crafting designed to exploit ignorant and gullible people to support a multi-billion dollar industry -- it's a confidence trick being perpetrated by white coats with credentials on their walls.

To use an analogy, just because people swear by religious prayer, homeopathy, acupuncture or other alternative forms of medicine, doesn't mean that they work. In fact just like with SSRI's, a number of studies conducted by various medical organizations around the world have repeatedly claimed that they're largely ineffective, and even with the most promising studies, the majority of people still don't reap any significant benefit.

 

[Wunjo]

Antidepressant commercials as a concept sounds dystopian enough...

 

[Bush]

Take chemotherapy. It has a shitload of side effects that are brutal and not well-understood. There's also debate on how well it actually works. And while it's a lot better than treatments we used to use (surgery for everything!) in the future, we absolutely need -- and likely will have -- better treatments with fewer nasty side effects and better results.

The reality is that even though chemo sucks, so does cancer.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Even though it's been 17 years its times like these I somehow continue to feel some vague echoes of culture shock. That is, in the old country and in the way I was raised even after leaving it, your emotions (mental issues too) aren't even valid in the first place and you are not going to have a good time if you are stupid enough to insist they are. Trust me. Sometimes I still continue to feel a little bit amazed at the softness of the U.S. and sometimes I even almost feel puzzled over it. Furthermore, creating substance for an already existent complex is not so hard at all from what I have seen with my own complexes. That is, if I went onto the redpill reddit to champion feminism then it would be easy to soon enough find myself tied to a stake.

Regardless, just because I do not need medication for my anxiety or the depressive episodes I've had (they're not islands but derived from a more concrete problem), doesn't mean I don't believe there are people out there who wouldn't benefit from meds. Obviously. Like my father, whose anxiety is several orders of magnitude more severe than mine. While I have been able to control my anxiety to the point of being able to function normally since I was a teen through sheer force, even I have recently sought therapy to refine things and break through the barrier I felt I had encountered (good enough was no longer good enough). Some of the CYFIP1 mice I've had to study have exhibited anxiety as their sole comorbidity due to the branches of their neurons being unusually ovecrowded and I vaugely recall reading about something similar about certain neurons possibly playing a large role in anxiety or something along those lines. Which I don't think pure force can make up for completely. At least not in my father's case but he's also a narcissist so that certainly complicates it all because in order to push against the problem you have to accept you even have one in the first place.

Similarly, I don't believe that just because therapy has been relatively good for me that everyone needs it or that it is the panacea. I am not aligned with the prescriptive method in any direction but instead the case by case basis.

Anyway, I tend not to ask for advice because I am too proud and so, do not often actually want the advice or opinions of others with regards to my decisions especially. If I want to set my apartment on fire, I will. If I want to kill myself, I will. If I want to take medication for my anxiety or depressive episodes, then I will. If I don't want to, I won't. I couldn't care less how most people feel/society feels about my decisions, though I do care how my decisions affect others. I try to be reasonable and if approached correctly or by someone I find wise, I will actually listen and be responsive. But my decisions aren't most often things I am open to external input about as the direction of my will isn't up for negotiation or capable of being influenced whatsoever.

 

[tkae.]

How so?

How is it extremely inaccurate or...? I don't understand your question.

My experience is that people refuse to accept that some people might not benefit at all from antidepressants.

When did I say everyone would benefit from antidepressants? People who are not depressed, who have bipolar disorder, or who have treatment-resistant depression probably won't benefit from antidepressants, no. I didn't say they would. I say people who COULD benefit from antidepressants tend to not want them. Very few people willingly accept a mental health diagnosis. The ones who do are either extremely insightful (and rare) or aren't really sick and are just worried they're sick.

The point of the video was mock the use of SSRI's by mentioning its questionable efficacy and wacky theory behind its use. If SSRI's are the cure for depression then I'm not going to be talking to my doctor any time soon, but if ideal female company and steak dinners suddenly became the clinical cure for depression then I'd be having all symptoms listed in the video faster than you can blink. In other words, the 'chemical imbalance' theory isn't supported by any lab work done before or after the use of medication; it's all fancy guess work and theory crafting designed to exploit ignorant and gullible people to support a multi-billion dollar industry -- it's a confidence trick being perpetrated by white coats with credentials on their walls.

I'm not sure you understand the science of this very well.

The chemical imbalance theory wouldn't be supported by lab work because the neurochemicals in question (seratonin and norepinephrine) can't be assessed with blood work due to the blood-brain barrier. The single largest inhibition to psychiatric research is the inability to assess neurochemical levels in the brain. What HAS been done is over 30 years of conceptualization and independent research that's suggested it's more likely than other theories due to outcome studies by independent researchers, progression in our understanding of neurology and neuropsychology, and advances in research like MRIs, fMRIs, etc.

And I would love for you to spend a day working in the psychiatric hospital I work in with people who are desperate for help with their overwhelming depression and suicidal thoughts, then look them in the face and tell them medications are all a con. Is it perfect? No. Psychiatry and psychotherapy are difficult as fuck because we're working with something locked behind thick bone that doesn't like being poked. Is it the aggregate result of a century of a people who have worked their asses off to constantly improve the treatments we can give desperate and suffering people? Yes.

To use an analogy, just because people swear by religious prayer, homeopathy, acupuncture or other alternative forms of medicine, doesn't mean that they work. In fact just like with SSRI's, a number of studies conducted by various medical organizations around the world have repeatedly claimed that they're largely ineffective, and even with the most promising studies, the majority of people still don't reap any significant benefit.

And an equal number of studies have shown that SSRIs are more effective than not doing anything at all. Those studies also showed that SSRIs are equally as effective as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and that the most effective treatment regimen for Major Depressive Disorder and anxiety disorders in general is a combination of SSRI trials and psychotherapy. Research also suggests that individuial neurochemistry and the different neurotransmitters involved mean that an average of 2-3 SSRI trials are necessary before an effective medication is found.

I'm very aware of the research, and I really don't have the time or energy to get in a citation battle with you. You act like mental health treatment is just throwing chemicals at people. We also use religious activities and any alternative medicine someone is interested in if it helps make them feel better. Because that's what we do. We help people try and feel better and live more functional lives when their mood, behaviors, psychosis, and developmental disorders inhibit their ability to live happy and fulfilling lives. You can sit back and be cynical all day, but you aren't the one people come to desperate for help. If it truly helps them, we'll throw the kitchen sink at it. We love to have research to know that what we're doing is proven to be effective, but if it takes acupuncture and shaman rituals and sweat lodges, we'll fucking do it. If steak dinners and sex with women help you, I'd help you budget for the steaks and set up your Tindr profile. By the way, treating yourself to nice meals and social interaction are behaviors that we look at to help people fight depression, it's called behavioral activation. It's shown by research to be effective.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

@tkae how is it extremely inaccurate?

 

[Yuurei]

My experience is that people refuse to accept that some people might not benefit at all from antidepressants.


The point of the video was mock the use of SSRI's by mentioning its questionable efficacy and wacky theory behind its use. If SSRI's are the cure for depression then I'm not going to be talking to my doctor any time soon, but if ideal female company and steak dinners suddenly became the clinical cure for depression then I'd be having all symptoms listed in the video faster than you can blink. In other words, the 'chemical imbalance' theory isn't supported by any lab work done before or after the use of medication; it's all fancy guess work and theory crafting designed to exploit ignorant and gullible people to support a multi-billion dollar industry -- it's a confidence trick being perpetrated by white coats with credentials on their walls.

To use an analogy, just because people swear by religious prayer, homeopathy, acupuncture or other alternative forms of medicine, doesn't mean that they work. In fact just like with SSRI's, a number of studies conducted by various medical organizations around the world have repeatedly claimed that they're largely ineffective, and even with the most promising studies, the majority of people still don't reap any significant benefit.

I was prescribed anti-depressants once. I refused to take them because as I explained to the Dr:

“ I’m 19 yrs old, and on dialysis. I get up at 4am to get to a job I shouldn’t be doing, with co-workers and customers who treat me like shit. As soon as I get home from that-with a migraine that makes me prey for a swift death-my abusive Mother screams at me to clean the house and make her dinner but it isn’t like I have other plans anyway. With so many physical disabilities I can’t really go out and join any sports teams nor do I have any real freinds ...
...and you’re telling me I’m depressed because there is something wrong with my brain?!”

Suprise, suprise. I cheered right up as soon as my situation got better.

I think the reason anti-depressants are pushed so hard is Drs can’t just tell people “Look, the world is fucked. Everything about modern life is horrid for our mental well being but good luck changing that.” ( So just stuff these pills in your face and fake it then one day you’ll be dead.”)

 

[ducks]

I guess psychiatry is one of those things people will never really agree on? I'm not sure I agree with the video. Medical science does know a lot about what different chemicals do in the brain and SSRIs and other drugs are used to modulate them.

But personally, I do think it is pushed on us as a society, as if most of our societal problems and ills come from "chemical imbalances". Not to say that some people don't benefit from it though. I know a guy that needs an anti-psychotic for the rest of his life because his brain doesn't produce some chemical (I don't know the details). But it's scary when as a society a mental health diagnosis gets put on people that act out or are dealing with very negative emotions. It trivializes their experiences and their person by indirectly making them a symptom of some psychiatric disease. But it's the other way around usually, that the psychiatric disease is a symptom of their bad experiences or intense negative emotions.

 

[featherless-biped]

Antidepressants have worked pretty well for me. However, at the end of the day, I think my depression is justified by the nature of the society I live in. Ideally, my depression would be fixed by social upheaval instead of pills, but until that happens, the pills will have to keep me going. Weed and cigarettes, too.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Similarly, I don't believe that just because therapy has been relatively good for me

Nvm.

 

[Hellena Handbasket]

About 9 months after my youngest child was born, I suffered from extreme fatigue. And not the normal taking care of a newborn fatigue. I woke up tired, and had zero energy. My regular doctor had moved so I ended up seeing another doctor in the practice. She checked my iron and my thyroid. Both were normal, so he said I must be suffering from depression. He prescribed me anti depressants. I argued with him for at least 30 minutes that it wasn't the case, but he wouldn't budge. He was convinced I was depressed. I left his office with a prescription I never filled. The next week I went to see my obgyn who indeed found a medical reason why I wanted to sleep 18 hours a day. She looked at all my symptoms and not just the fatigue.
That said, I have seen meds work wonders on those who really need them. My issue is with the way they are often pushed as a first resort and not used in conjuncture with other methods.

 

[Tellenbach]

I'd recommend two books for people who want to read up on SSRIs and the causes of depression:

1. The Emperor's New Drugs and
2. Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression

The first book looks at the research and statistics behind SSRIs (basically, SSRIs work but are no better than placebos and the entire chemical imbalance theory is nonsense).

The 2nd book looks at various genetic and environmental causes. A UK study found that bureaucrats at the bottom rung of the bureaucracy (people who had very little power and control of their situation) were much more likely to commit suicide.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Antidepressants have worked pretty well for me. However, at the end of the day, I think my depression is justified by the nature of the society I live in. Ideally, my depression would be fixed by social upheaval instead of pills, but until that happens, the pills will have to keep me going. Weed and cigarettes, too.

Antidepressants are magic.

 

[Deprecator]

When did I say everyone would benefit from antidepressants?

As far as I'm aware you never did, and your questioning is rather curious to me because I never claimed or implied otherwise. You merely volunteered a personal anecdote ("My experience is that people refuse to accept that they might benefit from antidepressants"), and then I responded with a personal anecdote of my own ("My experience is that people refuse to accept that some people might not benefit at all from antidepressants").

I say people who COULD benefit from antidepressants tend to not want them.

And I say that people who wouldn't benefit from antidepressants tend to have them pushed onto them by others.

If sex with women help you, I'd help you set up your Tindr profile.

And if helping me set up my tindr profile was in any way correlated with me getting more tail then I'd happily help you become thousands of dollars richer. Notice how I stipulate a positive outcome prior to committing to a financial transaction? Without this stipulation I open myself up to all sorts of abuse. From snake oil to exorcisms to shaman rituals... heck, even a psychologist might exploit my desire to sleep with women by claiming that they could 'help me with my confidence and social skills' (as if), and it's very possible that I'd merely lose thousands of dollars for a 'treatment' that has been proven to be largely ineffective. Of course you seem to be 100% on board with all this highly exploitive psuedoscientific psycho babble.

 

[rav3n]

About 9 months after my youngest child was born, I suffered from extreme fatigue. And not the normal taking care of a newborn fatigue. I woke up tired, and had zero energy. My regular doctor had moved so I ended up seeing another doctor in the practice. She checked my iron and my thyroid. Both were normal, so he said I must be suffering from depression. He prescribed me anti depressants. I argued with him for at least 30 minutes that it wasn't the case, but he wouldn't budge. He was convinced I was depressed. I left his office with a prescription I never filled. The next week I went to see my obgyn who indeed found a medical reason why I wanted to sleep 18 hours a day. She looked at all my symptoms and not just the fatigue.
That said, I have seen meds work wonders on those who really need them. My issue is with the way they are often pushed as a first resort and not used in conjuncture with other methods.

I find it appalling that GPs are prescribing mental health meds. No problems with them prescribing maintenance prescriptions but not new ones since they're not qualified to clinically diagnose people's mental health issues.