Astronomers to check interstellar body for signs of alien technology

[Doctor Cringelord]

Astronomers to check interstellar body for signs of alien technology

ʻOumuamua - Wikipedia

 

[Lark]

I must confess that I am skeptical as to whether or not this is a good or efficient use of scarce resources.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I must confess that I am skeptical as to whether or not this is a good or efficient use of scarce resources.

It's probably just a lifeless rock. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to be learned or discovered in studying it.

 

[Population: 1]

Oumuamua=Tin Man (Gomtuu)

 

[Lark]

It's probably just a lifeless rock. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to be learned or discovered in studying it.

If this lifeless rock could be mined for some sort of minerals or resources, sure, if it would be possible to discover something about the rock's composition so it could be easily targetted and destroyed if anything like this came into the solar system on a collision course with earth, sure, otherwise its a torching of a huge amount of money.

 

[Population: 1]

If this lifeless rock could be mined for some sort of minerals or resources, sure, if it would be possible to discover something about the rock's composition so it could be easily targetted and destroyed if anything like this came into the solar system on a collision course with earth, sure, otherwise its a torching of a huge amount of money.

Like humans don’t torch huge amounts of money everyday on frivolous government spending or worse, it vanishes into thin air. At least you know where the cash is going and for what.

 

[Lark]

Like humans don’t torch huge amounts of money everyday on frivolous government spending or worse, it vanishes into thin air. At least you know where the cash is going and for what.

I'm interested to know what "frivolous government spending or worse" means, I think we can agree it is not a good thing if money and resources "vanishes into thin air" but I'm not sure if we would be on the same page as to what that means.

 

[Population: 1]

I'm interested to know what "frivolous government spending or worse" means, I think we can agree it is not a good thing if money and resources "vanishes into thin air" but I'm not sure if we would be on the same page as to what that means.

Bridges to nowhere, countless programs to research absurd questions no one gives two shits about. $500 hammers and toilet seats. I’ve been alive long enough to see decades of U.S. government spending on ridiculous shit. Look it up, there’s no shortage of things to laugh at or shake a fist at.

 

[Lark]

Bridges to nowhere, countless programs to research absurd questions no one gives two shits about. $500 hammers and toilet seats. I’ve been alive long enough to see decades of U.S. government spending on ridiculous shit. Look it up, there’s no shortage of things to laugh at or shake a fist at.

I think I've heard the one about hammers and toilet seats before, sometimes I think that the invoices with exaggerated costs are actually for other things which can not be properly declared, by that I do not mean there is corruption per se but simply creative accounting, which sometimes has to be utilised when some sort of standardised response to another, different, problem has been introduced.

I'll give you an example.

If there has been a reliance upon petty cash in a firm or office as a quick fix for funding, circumventing some more complex, less immediate invoicing system, a move is made to reduce the use of petty cash by introducing caps on individual spends, that does not actually correct the original problem but it is a response, so the next time a large petty cash spend is necessary it is made and instead of declaring the expense as a single figure it is divided into three or four seperate spends.

That's just one example, I am not making excuses, also, do you not think that the same examples are circulated quite a bit? What do you think that says? Also do you think that those are large figures relative to the plans of the agency?

This is something which I think happens in the private sector just as much, I would say that it is perhaps typical in firms or agencies above a certain size, experiencing a certain organisational culture and managerialism plays its part too. The attention to its occurence in the public/state sphere is exaggerated in my opinion, there's a lot of cultural aspects to it and urban myths. Its also important to popular and populist ideologies that there's examples "kept in circulation without explanation", dont you think?

 

[Population: 1]

I think I've heard the one about hammers and toilet seats before, sometimes I think that the invoices with exaggerated costs are actually for other things which can not be properly declared, by that I do not mean there is corruption per se but simply creative accounting, which sometimes has to be utilised when some sort of standardised response to another, different, problem has been introduced.

I'll give you an example.

If there has been a reliance upon petty cash in a firm or office as a quick fix for funding, circumventing some more complex, less immediate invoicing system, a move is made to reduce the use of petty cash by introducing caps on individual spends, that does not actually correct the original problem but it is a response, so the next time a large petty cash spend is necessary it is made and instead of declaring the expense as a single figure it is divided into three or four seperate spends.

That's just one example, I am not making excuses, also, do you not think that the same examples are circulated quite a bit? What do you think that says? Also do you think that those are large figures relative to the plans of the agency?

This is something which I think happens in the private sector just as much, I would say that it is perhaps typical in firms or agencies above a certain size, experiencing a certain organisational culture and managerialism plays its part too. The attention to its occurence in the public/state sphere is exaggerated in my opinion, there's a lot of cultural aspects to it and urban myths. Its also important to popular and populist ideologies that there's examples "kept in circulation without explanation", dont you think?

Some humans are wasteful, dishonest and manipulative and politics and business just calls to them like sirens. The records are there to be read. I used an example that’s famous because I know you’re not from the US but it’s a legendary example nonetheless. And when a government can drop a pallet with ten million dollars on it into the Iraqi desert and ‘lose track of it’ yeah I’m suspicious of that entity. It happened during the senseless invasion of Iraq. Ten fucking million! And a billionaire politician had the nerve to say I know ten mil may seem like a lot of money! Fucking asshole. People wonder why I keep out of politics. It disgusts me.

 

[Lark]

Some humans are wasteful, dishonest and manipulative and politics and business just calls to them like sirens. The records are there to be read. I used an example that’s famous because I know you’re not from the US but it’s a legendary example nonetheless. And when a government can drop a pallet with ten million dollars on it into the Iraqi desert and ‘lose track of it’ yeah I’m suspicious of that entity. It happened during the senseless invasion of Iraq. Ten fucking million! And a billionaire politician had the nerve to say I know ten mil may seem like a lot of money! Fucking asshole. People wonder why I keep out of politics. It disgusts me.

Have you heard about this book:-

The Optimism Bias: Why we're wired to look on the bright side: Amazon.co.uk: Tali Sharot: 9781780332635: Books

Here's a youtube/TED talk too:

The thing is that I do think there has been a lot of badness in politics and business, it leaves a lot to be desired for sure, although if you want to survey politics and business as a whole there are examples of the good too.

I think that the bias which the Tali talks about has come into play, heavily come into play, in politics and business, though its a pessimistic bias, which nearly prevents the discovery or awareness of any ordinary good which is taking place. Also I think that anyone who where to suddenly appear from the distant past they would be amazed at how great a job politicians or governments do, expectations have just moved on (the same could be said for why immigrants folk to what critical citizens would claim is a rotten country to live in).

That money probably was a pay off to someone, the Bush wars saw the unprecedented use private contractors and there was a lot of confusion and lack of communication between the political and military, if the book The Operators or its adaptation on Netflix, War Machine, is to be believed and I find it very plausible. The film Made In America about the government's role in drugs and arms trafficking, Ollie North and Iran-Contra Gate is a great movie too, if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Personally, its part of the reason I support social and health spending, as it automatically restricts the available tax revenue for intelligence or war mongering, those agencies will use whatever money is available for actions abroad which are prohibited domestically and then eventually work to expand the permissible actions or sphere of influence at home.

I know that a lot of libertarians have said that they dont mind military-industrial spending so much because it fits with their view of what is the legitimate sphere of government action, even considering inflated military budgets good as they believe it deprives social or health budgets of funding, even looking favourably upon deficit spending, but I think that's a mistake.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

If this lifeless rock could be mined for some sort of minerals or resources, sure, if it would be possible to discover something about the rock's composition so it could be easily targetted and destroyed if anything like this came into the solar system on a collision course with earth, sure, otherwise its a torching of a huge amount of money.

Unfortunately it is probably travelling too fast to be mined with our current level of technology.

I am however a big proponent of mining other asteroids in our solar system and I think it could be achieved via unmanned, automated drones. There's probably a wealth of minerals and elements to be mined from the various asteroids, moons, etc. in our system. If we can get to a point where the costs do not outweigh the benefits then I think this could benefit the planet, but I'm wondering what the potential political, international conflicts might be as various nations compete for access and rights to various bodies in space.

 

[Mole]

Astronomers to check interstellar body for signs of alien technology

ʻOumuamua - Wikipedia

We are at an interesting point in history where we don't know if we are the only life in the universe, or the only conscious life. And we don't know whether the universe teems with life and conscious life. I am inclined to think the chances are the universe teems with life.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

We are at an interesting point in history where we don't know if we are the only life in the universe, or the only conscious life. And we don't know whether the universe teems with life and conscious life. I am inclined to think the chances are the universe teems with life.

Yes, I agree. Conscious life is probably less frequent though.

 

[Population: 1]

The universe is huge, of course there’s other life out there, to suggest otherwise is just plain moronic. You can’t have 100 billion galaxies (more that we haven’t discovered) with 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (estimated) stars and x amount of planets around many of those stars and not have something else going on out there.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The universe is huge, of course there’s other life out there, to suggest otherwise is just plain moronic. You can’t have 100 billion galaxies (more that we haven’t discovered) with 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (estimated) stars and x amount of planets around many of those stars and not have something else going on out there.

agreed. But I have a feeling sentient or complex life is fewer and farther between, that the majority is stuff like bacteria, single cell organisms, etc.

 

[Population: 1]

agreed. But I have a feeling sentient or complex life is fewer and farther between, that the majority is stuff like bacteria, single cell organisms, etc.

Oh without a doubt. Even so, given the size of the universe and the billions of years it’s been around, there has been and is a large amount of intelligent life leaving it’s mark on things.

I have no doubt we’ll find simple life on some of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. All we have to do is discover the simplest forms of extraterrestrial life and it will spark a huge interest in what’s out there. It’s like we have to prove it concretely before most people even show interest. It blows my mind that so many people give little to no thought of what goes on beyond our skies.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Oh without a doubt. Even so, given the size of the universe and the billions of years it’s been around, there has been and is a large amount of intelligent life leaving it’s mark on things.

I have no doubt we’ll find simple life on some of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. All we have to do is discover the simplest forms of extraterrestrial life and it will spark a huge interest in what’s out there. It’s like we have to prove it concretely before most people even show interest. It blows my mind that so many people give little to no thought of what goes on beyond our skies.

Very strong chance of life in the oceans of Europa. And due to the radiation from Jupiter, we might learn something about how life can thrive in those conditions. It also has crazy tides due to the gravitational pull of Jupiter, that's why the surface is always cracked.

 

[Lark]

We are at an interesting point in history where we don't know if we are the only life in the universe, or the only conscious life. And we don't know whether the universe teems with life and conscious life. I am inclined to think the chances are the universe teems with life.

What if the aliens are roman catholics and marxists?

 

[Population: 1]

Very strong chance of life in the oceans of Europa. And due to the radiation from Jupiter, we might learn something about how life can thrive in those conditions. It also has crazy tides due to the gravitational pull of Jupiter, that's why the surface is always cracked.

The problem is figuring out how to get to it. How to get through all that ice. Humans are ingenious (at times) and I’m positive we’ll find a way.

I’m also excited by newer telescopes we plan on putting up that may be able to show pictures of exoplanets. That would be amazing. We’ve definitely come a long way since I was a kid.