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  1. #71
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Alright I see what you mean, yeah I guess we have a different definition of the terms...I just don't see how Bitcoin (or LETS for that matter) have been, or even could be co-opted by business since Bitcoin is de-centralized and LETS are non-profit.

    I'm not saying we should resort to basing our ideas on Adam Smith in the 21st century, many of the ideas of his you bring up were and are highly theoretical and yet they are still considered canons of many economists to this day, I like classical liberalism too, though I think it needs to be remodeled for today's concerns, which include crony capitalism, globalization, outsourcing, global warming, lobbying, all things which weren't issues or weren't considered such during the days of Smith, I don't adhere to any poltical ideology rather I pick different things that work here and there, I like the freedom that liberalism is about and I think capitalism brings a great deal of it, but I am also a social liberal as I believe a person in extreme poverty can't work their way up, so I believe in a safety net and government providing healthcare costs etc.

    To get back to Bitcoin, I think it can be a tool to fight the monopoly government/banks have on the economy, hence it can be used to fight excessive power and thus it is in line with liberal ideas, though it's hard to say what impact it will have long term or even if this impact will be positive. I'm tempted to utter "I don't know where cypto will lead, maybe it will lead to something but I doubt it", remember people were saying such things about the internet and emailing in the 90s, so I wouldn't underestmate it nor the Blockchain technology that goes with it.
    Its to do with economies of scale, beyond a certain size the "first families" of capitalism will just buy it, whatever it is.

    I probably believe in more of a institutional than a residual form of government, I dont believe that's a partisan issue but others would disagree and they're free to, though to be truthful, unless other more fundamental things change and a lot of the liberal trends are reversed, not by state action, not by populists but by a resurgent common sense or cultural revolution, I dont believe capitalism, socialism or anything else will be possible or sustainable.

    As I say, in relation to crypto, the same as anything else, its economies of scale, beyond a certain size the small firms, individual bitcoin miners, dont matter a damn, and they will go to the wall, the larger ones, which can pay the electricity bill to remain "solvent", they will be bought off and the futures speculation is the beginning of discovery as to the means by which the same old, big old money will do their thing.

  2. #72
    trying to take a break Typh0n's Avatar
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    What is Blockchain Technology? A Step-by-Step Guide For Beginners

    For a good intro to Blockchain and what it is, how it works etc. I had some trouble understanding it and this helped alot.

    Picture a spreadsheet that is duplicated thousands of times across a network of computers. Then imagine that this network is designed to regularly update this spreadsheet and you have a basic understanding of the blockchain.
    Information held on a blockchain exists as a shared — and continually reconciled — database. This is a way of using the network that has obvious benefits. The blockchain database isn’t stored in any single location, meaning the records it keeps are truly public and easily verifiable. No centralized version of this information exists for a hacker to corrupt. Hosted by millions of computers simultaneously, its data is accessible to anyone on the internet.
    Last edited by Typh0n; 12-22-2017 at 04:11 PM.

  3. #73
    trying to take a break Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    Its to do with economies of scale, beyond a certain size the "first families" of capitalism will just buy it, whatever it is.

    I probably believe in more of a institutional than a residual form of government, I dont believe that's a partisan issue but others would disagree and they're free to, though to be truthful, unless other more fundamental things change and a lot of the liberal trends are reversed, not by state action, not by populists but by a resurgent common sense or cultural revolution, I dont believe capitalism, socialism or anything else will be possible or sustainable.

    As I say, in relation to crypto, the same as anything else, its economies of scale, beyond a certain size the small firms, individual bitcoin miners, dont matter a damn, and they will go to the wall, the larger ones, which can pay the electricity bill to remain "solvent", they will be bought off and the futures speculation is the beginning of discovery as to the means by which the same old, big old money will do their thing.
    What you're talking about reminds of what happened in Russia post communism. Soviet state-owned firms were sold off and all Russian citizens were given vouchers worth ten thousand rubles in Russian firms which had been privatized. But insiders and the Russian mafia were clever, they all bought out the vouchers, there was this vast consipracy to buy out what the people owned and since people were either very poor, very ignorant or both, they sold their vouchers and thats how Russian oligrachs were created, if I'm not mistaken those same capitalist oligrachs had been soviet insiders.

    This could very well happen with Bitcoin, too, but since we're talking an object of speculation and not something that is essential for survival such as food, clothing, shelter, utilities, if you have like one oligarch owning all the Bitcoin what would be the interest in doing that? Because then noone else would be interested, there would be no demand, and the value would plummet due to lack of interest. I agree that in this case the big fish will buy out the small fish, the richer folk with buy out the modest speculators, but whats the point of being a big fish in a small pond? If government has control over money and supply of money, they have a monopoly on it, all the private sector has to do is join forces with the government, but with crypto even if Bitcoin is being monopolized, people will turn to Litecoin, Ethereum etc since there is no monopoly.

    I think there will be problems with Bitcoin, challenges so to speak, but they will not be the problems of centrally controlled fiat money. They will be of a different nature altogether, I suspect.

  4. #74
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    Bitcoin drops 25 percent: News Feed About Bitcoin | Facebook

  5. #75
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    Bitcoin drops 25 percent: News Feed About Bitcoin | Facebook
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    What you're talking about reminds of what happened in Russia post communism. Soviet state-owned firms were sold off and all Russian citizens were given vouchers worth ten thousand rubles in Russian firms which had been privatized. But insiders and the Russian mafia were clever, they all bought out the vouchers, there was this vast consipracy to buy out what the people owned and since people were either very poor, very ignorant or both, they sold their vouchers and thats how Russian oligrachs were created, if I'm not mistaken those same capitalist oligrachs had been soviet insiders.

    This could very well happen with Bitcoin, too, but since we're talking an object of speculation and not something that is essential for survival such as food, clothing, shelter, utilities, if you have like one oligarch owning all the Bitcoin what would be the interest in doing that? Because then noone else would be interested, there would be no demand, and the value would plummet due to lack of interest. I agree that in this case the big fish will buy out the small fish, the richer folk with buy out the modest speculators, but whats the point of being a big fish in a small pond? If government has control over money and supply of money, they have a monopoly on it, all the private sector has to do is join forces with the government, but with crypto even if Bitcoin is being monopolized, people will turn to Litecoin, Ethereum etc since there is no monopoly.

    I think there will be problems with Bitcoin, challenges so to speak, but they will not be the problems of centrally controlled fiat money. They will be of a different nature altogether, I suspect.
    See what you're describing with the whole post-communism and rise of the oligarchs, its a little like talking about the teams playing in the superbowl but what I'm talking about when I'm talking about the fortune five hundred of the world and their buying and monopolising any business which emerges through economies of scale its like the stadium the teams play upon.

    The centrally controlled fiat currencies are for the most part privately controlled.

  7. #77
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    When you buy at the bottom of a dip and everything then goes up 15-20%

    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #78
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    When you buy at the bottom of a dip and everything then goes up 15-20%

    Also, pretty obvious I'm a crypto noob since I get excited about a gain of 15-20% instead of 15 to 20x
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #79
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Shoved $50 into eth a few days ago and am up by six whole bucks

    I've only got two data points to work with, but I can only assume that gains are exponential, right..? When can I expect my 0.0420 eth to be worth $500..? If it's going to take more than a couple of days I might not be able to wait for it.
    J. Scott Crothers
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    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  10. #80
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    hmmmmmmmm


    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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