How LSD helped us probe what the ‘sense of self’ looks like in the brain

[Vasilisa]

How LSD helped us probe what the ‘sense of self’ looks like in the brain
April 13, 2016
https://theconversation.com/

Excerpt:
Every single person is different. We all have different backgrounds, views, values and interests. And yet there is one universal feeling that we all experience at every single moment. Call it an “ego”, a “self” or just an “I” – it’s the idea that our thoughts and feelings are our own, and no one else has access to them in the same way. This may sound a bit like post-war French existentialism or psycho-analysis, but it’s actually a topic that’s being increasingly addressed by neuroscientists.

We were part of a team interested in finding out how this sense of self is expressed in the brain – and what happens when it dissolves. To do that, we used brain imaging and the psychedelic drug LSD.

Our sense of self is something so natural that we are not always fully aware of it. In fact, it is when it is disturbed that it becomes the most noticeable. This could be due to mental illnesses such as psychosis, when people might experience the delusional belief that their thoughts are no longer private, but can be accessed and even modified by other people. Or it could be due to the influence of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, when the user can feel that their ego is “dissolving” and they are becoming at one with the world. From a scientific point of view, these experiences of “ego death” or ego dissolution are also opportunities to search for this sense of self in the brain.

Our study, led by Enzo Tagliazucchi and published in Current Biology, set out to probe what is happening in the brain when our sense of self becomes altered by psychedelic drugs (link to Enzo’s paper). We studied 15 healthy volunteers before and after taking LSD, which altered their normal feelings of their selves and their relationship with the environment. These subjects were scanned while intoxicated and while receiving placebo using functional MRI, a technique which allows us to study the brain’s activity by measuring changes in blood flow. By contrasting the activity of the brain when receiving a placebo with its activity after taking LSD, we could start exploring the brain mechanisms involved in the normal experience of the self.

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The Trip Treatment

Alexander Shulgin​

Happy Bicycle Day, Typoc!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I've done a bit of self experimentation on this topic. Good times....

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

One can experience that too into deep, serious and regular meditation. No need to ruin your brain with drugs for that.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

Psychedelics

"According to Leary, Metzer & Alpert (1964), ego death, or ego loss as they call it, is part of the (symbolic) experience of death in which the old ego must die before one can be spiritually reborn.[13] Ego loss is... complete transcendence − beyond words, beyond space−time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvements. ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles, rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic space−time locations and characteristic patterns of movement. Any behavior not having these nine features is non− game: this includes physiological reflexes, spontaneous play, and transcendent awareness."

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

One can experience that too into deep, serious and regular meditation. No need to ruin your brain with drugs for that.

The negative effects of LSD are practically nil unless taken with great frequency, a la Syd Barrett.

I recommend it at least once to all adults. I think our congress members could benefit from a big LSD party.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

The negative effects of LSD are practically nil unless taken with great frequency, a la Syd Barrett.

I recommend it at least once to all adults. I think our congress members could benefit from a big LSD party.

How about addiction problems ? How about people (mainly young ones) that die suddenly because of hallucinations in rave parties ?

How about secondary effects that one can't control and predict ?


I saw people under the effect of extasy, LSD, MDMA and cocaine. Most of the time those have deep emotional, social, sexual, or other problems.

They deny them and think they are cool but that is pure bullshit.


The worst is when you see them become paranoid......... That is really scary.

Most of people under drug habits become very arrogant, proud, and feel superior to others. But deep inside there is fear, void and unresponsive behaviour.

In my very humble opinion, they can only attract people with low self-confidence/dependant people or people alike.


I suppose to try LSD just for "an experiment" you should be some kind of scientist, clever enough, and mainly very stable. Not everybody is the same in front of chemicals...

If people like to play with their life, they are free to do whatever they want. Life isn't a game.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Psychedelics

"According to Leary, Metzer & Alpert (1964), ego death, or ego loss as they call it, is part of the (symbolic) experience of death in which the old ego must die before one can be spiritually reborn.[13] Ego loss is... complete transcendence − beyond words, beyond space−time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvements. ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles, rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic space−time locations and characteristic patterns of movement. Any behavior not having these nine features is non− game: this includes physiological reflexes, spontaneous play, and transcendent awareness."

You can learn that too with technics and real PLAYS such as theatre...

But for sure, it will require much more time and a great deal of patience to learn useful skills than if you just swallow some magic pill.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

How about addiction problems ? How about people (mainly young ones) that die suddenly because of hallucinations in rave parties ?

How about secondary effects that one can't control and predict ?


I saw people under the effect of extasy, LSD, MDMA and cocaine. Most of the time those have deep emotional, social, sexual, or other problems.

They deny them and think they are cool but that is pure bullshit.


The worst is when you see them become paranoid......... That is really scary.

Most of people under drug habits become very arrogant, proud, and feel superior to others. But deep inside there is fear, void and unresponsive behaviour.

In my very humble opinion, they can only attract people with low self-confidence/dependant people or people alike.


I suppose to try LSD just for "an experiment" you should be some kind of scientist, clever enough, and mainly very stable. Not everybody is the same in front of chemicals...

If people like to play with their life, they are free to do whatever they want. Life isn't a game.

I hate to say it, but tripping at a rave or any place with lots of people, bright lights, and loud music is highly inadvisable.

LSD should be taken in a quiet, placid, comfortable environment with one or two well trusted friends.

Is LSD addictive in the same sense as Ecstasy, Cocaine, etc?

There's always going to be some people who abuse any substance, but that doesn't mean the substance itself can't be or isn't beneficial.

Were you an addiction counselor or EMT or something?

 

[SpankyMcFly]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that today 4/20/2016 is another reason this thread has garnered attention. PURE speculation, but my 'intuition' told me in a smoke filled dream.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Man I wish I'd scored a bag for today.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I hate to say it, but tripping at a rave or any place with lots of people, bright lights, and loud music is highly inadvisable.

LSD should be taken in a quiet, placid, comfortable environment with one or two well trusted friends.

Is LSD addictive in the same sense as Ecstasy, Cocaine, etc?

There's always going to be some people who abuse any substance, but that doesn't mean the substance itself can't be or isn't beneficial.

Were you an addiction counselor or EMT or something?

No I am not. But I've met some people who took different kinds of drugs. Theorically I know a bit about that subject.

Psychologically those people still have the same problems and deny them. That is why I call drugs "magic pills".


I smoke cannabis at night sometimes.

Here too : smoking at night and smoking all day long has different effects on your feelings, brain, and body.

I have had enough bad trips with cannabis (I used to smoke with strangers and mix alcohol with it when I was younger).

To me there is no "soft drug". Mix it with alcohol in an insecure place and see the result........

Is LSD addictive in the same sense as Ecstasy, Cocaine, etc?

I'm not an expert I can't answer your question. Plus I'm not interested in trying those products.

I guess it depends on your own psychology and temper as well...

 

[prplchknz]

Most people can handle weed and lsd without lasting effects. some can't. if you enjoy it go for it, i'm not here to judge though i don't think lsd produces ego death so many people have just the illusion of an ego death. its like it kills the ego but then they're so proud of their ego death that it wakes the ego back up and therefore it is actually really hard to achieve ego death if you try. I dunno if it has never happen, just that its probably rarer with lsd then people claim. Yes i think a lot of the worlds problems would be solved if we had a mass ego death or at least a stunting of worldwide, but its not gonna happen.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

There definitely are potential negative effects if you take too much or take it when you aren't in the right head space. You build up a tolerance so quickly to it that you can't do it more than say once every month or two and still get a worth while experience from it.

I've had a couple of mildly bad trips, and one massively bad one. Even the massively bad one was a learning and growing experience, but I thought I was actually dying. As in I was desperately calling my GF to come back to our place from wherever she was because if I was about to die the one thing I had to do before I did was see her face and tell her I love her. I took too much that time, probably around 600 micrograms and was also in a bad head space. I think I would have been fine if I hadn't been going through some job bullshit at the time, but the combo of my unhappiness with work and the fact that that was the most I have ever taken wasn't a smart idea.

You absolutely have to respect this shit or else you will get in trouble. Having a trip buddy is always a good idea especially for the inexperienced. Don't take it if you aren't in the right head space. Whatever you are feeling before you take it, you will bring with you into the experience. Don't ever take it to try and feel better. You need to already be feeling better when you take it.

All that being said, I've had some of the best experiences tripping with my GF. Music is incredible, you learn shit about yourself and about life. My proportion of bad trips is very small to my proportion of not bad trips.

Not all of them were "amazing" experiences, but a good number were. This is where taking it too frequently can ruin the experience. You have to wait long enough that doing it is special. Most of my lack luster trips where lack luster because I didn't give it enough time.

I will say though, that when the trip is good, nothing is better than acid. Most amazing experiences I've ever had in an altered state.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Having a trip buddy is always a good idea especially for the inexperienced. Don't take it if you aren't in the right head space. Whatever you are feeling before you take it, you will bring with you into the experience. Don't ever take it to try and feel better. You need to already be feeling better when you take it.

This is good advice.

I've read that it's wise to get any important stress or business to a minimum prior to taking it. If you've been having anxiety about talking to a family member, call them first (don't tell them you're going to trip, necessarily) and get that off your chest.

Take it with another person who you're very comfortable around and who (preferably) has some experience with it.

It's going to cause your mind to explore whatever you've been feeling or sitting on and amplify those feelings.

LSD is different than shrooms, in that, while arguably longer lasting and more intense, it is more manageable. With shrooms, you're pretty much at the mercy of the drug, but LSD trips are somewhat manageable and you can maintain a little more control over the situation if you are taking it in the right environment and frame of mind.

It causes a lot of introspection, which might be unpleasant to some people, but as my wife and I already tend to be pretty introspective individuals, we wound up just reveling in the sway of the treetops we saw through our window, enjoying the unpredictability of the jazz coming through our stereo speakers, and marveling at the way the pastels and charcoals interacted with the paper as we sat naked making art on the floor.

 

[Cellmold]

[MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION]

Sounds like solid advice. Also made me realise I would never be a suitable candidate for taking the drug.

 

[Qlip]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that today 4/20/2016 is another reason this thread has garnered attention. PURE speculation, but my 'intuition' told me in a smoke filled dream.

The article came out last week for recent studies. LSD has its own day, Bicycle Day, that was yesterday.

Weed and LSD are so incredibly different it's not comparable.

***

I spent about 6 months on psychedelics. I ended up stopping when there was nothing really new happening and my friend ended up nearly hurting himself badly in an 'ego death' out by a literal cliff. Care is advised.

 

[Bush]

Psychologically those people still have the same problems and deny them. That is why I call drugs "magic pills".


I smoke cannabis at night sometimes.

Here too : smoking at night and smoking all day long has different effects on your feelings, brain, and body.

Hm. I'm not a huge fan of pedantry, but it looks like it'd be useful to define "drug." I don't think it's dependent upon how and when it's delivered.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The article came out last week for recent studies. LSD has its own day, Bicycle Day, that was yesterday.

Weed and LSD are so incredibly different it's not comparable.

***

I spent about 6 months on psychedelics. I ended up stopping when there was nothing really new happening and my friend ended up nearly hurting himself badly in an 'ego death' out by a literal cliff. Care is advised.

It's a serious substance not to be toyed with, and its definitely not for everyone. But with the right precautions it is absolutely something I would recommend to all those who think they would enjoy and or gain something from it.

As long as you know your general tolerance for stuff going in, don't take too much and follow the guidelines above (esp the trip buddy part) it should be smooth sailing.

I would say for those considering it, it helps to be excited about it. If you've let yourself be convinced to take it and are anxious going in, things might not go as well as hoped. If you are going to do it, hop in with both feet and relax.

Also timing when you take it can be important. It's not something you can take at 9pm and expect to get much sleep that night. You'll probably still be feeling it at around 5am, and trying to get to sleep with acid in you is a hopeless proposition (at least for me). I've had good experiences taking it at between 5 - 8 for a night time trip. I'm not super well versed in day tripping because I usually have shit to take care of during the day that precludes me from being able to trip. I've heard camping is a great time to trip with a partner or friends during the day.

Also, don't expect crazy visuals (unless you take too much). The effects I've experienced are more general environmental changes like the walls seeming to breathe, moderate color alterations, and patterns on the wall moving. For instance, if you have plaster walls that aren't smooth, the textured patters will change if you focus on them. I've found that visuals usually occur in a medium. Like posters with patterns, or a flag on the wall seeming to wave. That's why movies can be fun. I've gotten good visual results with them. Can't recommend good music esp through a record player highly enough. I've had great experiences watching fairly epic bluerays. Interstellar has been great, as has drive, and Sicario.

Plan ahead and have food and drink ready. Trying to cook tripping is not advisable. Also, trying to deal with a delivery person tripping isn't recommended unless you are experienced. In that same vein, don't do activities where you have to interact with others if you are new to the experience. Until you get your sea legs you'll want to stay with friends who are also tripping, and do so in a place that is comfortable and known to you. This is called set and setting. Once you've gotten a handle on it you can try going for a bike ride to the local movie theater, or to a concert or whatever you feel comfortable with.

Just be safe and indulge responsibly.

 

[prplchknz]

It's a serious substance not to be toyed with, and its definitely not for everyone. But with the right precautions it is absolutely something I would recommend to all those who think they would enjoy and or gain something from it.

As long as you know your general tolerance for stuff going in, don't take too much and follow the guidelines above (esp the trip buddy part) it should be smooth sailing.

I would say for those considering it, it helps to be excited about it. If you've let yourself be convinced to take it and are anxious going in, things might not go as well as hoped. If you are going to do it, hop in with both feet and relax.

Also timing when you take it can be important. It's not something you can take at 9pm and expect to get much sleep that night. You'll probably still be feeling it at around 5am, and trying to get to sleep with acid in you is a hopeless proposition (at least for me). I've had good experiences taking it at between 5 - 8 for a night time trip. I'm not super well versed in day tripping because I usually have shit to take care of during the day that precludes me from being able to trip. I've heard camping is a great time to trip with a partner or friends during the day.

Also, don't expect crazy visuals (unless you take too much). The effects I've experienced are more general environmental changes like the walls seeming to breathe, moderate color alterations, and patterns on the wall moving. For instance, if you have plaster walls that aren't smooth, the textured patters will change if you focus on them. I've found that visuals usually occur in a medium. Like posters with patterns, or a flag on the wall seeming to wave. That's why movies can be fun. I've gotten good visual results with them. Can't recommend good music esp enough through a record player highly enough. I've had great experiences watching fairly epic bluerays. Interstellar has been great, as has drive, and Sicario.

Plan ahead and have food and drink ready. Trying to cook tripping is not advisable. Also, trying to deal with a delivery person tripping isn't recommended unless you are experienced. In that same vein, don't do activities where you have to interact with others if you are new to the experience. Until you get your sea legs you'll want to stay with friends who are also tripping, and do so in a place that is comfortable and known to you. This is called set and setting. Once you've gotten a handle on it you can try going for a bike ride to the local movie theater, or to a concert or whatever you feel comfortable with.

Just be safe and indulge responsibly.

I thought that just happened to people naturally, i didn't know some people needed acid for that. I can't really comment on anything else.

 

[á´…eparted]

No I am not. But I've met some people who took different kinds of drugs. Theorically I know a bit about that subject.

Psychologically those people still have the same problems and deny them. That is why I call drugs "magic pills".

I smoke cannabis at night sometimes.

Here too : smoking at night and smoking all day long has different effects on your feelings, brain, and body.

I have had enough bad trips with cannabis (I used to smoke with strangers and mix alcohol with it when I was younger).

To me there is no "soft drug". Mix it with alcohol in an insecure place and see the result........

Is LSD addictive in the same sense as Ecstasy, Cocaine, etc?

I'm not an expert I can't answer your question. Plus I'm not interested in trying those products.

I guess it depends on your own psychology and temper as well...

What [MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION] said is exactly right, and pointed out the core dangers of hallucinogens. Though I will say that just because a person is high-strung (such as myself) doesn't mean they'll have a bad time. You simply have to be accepting of something taking complete control of you for a while. I'm a large advocate for a number of drugs, and try to point out how misconceptions about them, since a number of them are not even close to as dangerous as people assume. Are they for everyone? No, but many people don't realize that they'd likely enjoy them, even just as a one time experience.

The only risks with LSD and related hallucinogens is psychological. I'm an organic chemist so I should be able to answer questions you'd have on this. Further, I have had personal experience with a number of these compounds (marijuana, magic mushrooms (psilocybin), DMT (dimethyltriptamine), and LSD. Hoping to add mescaline (peyote) and 2-CB to the list this summer). I should note that biochemistry is far more complex than I am explaining here, so I'll have to gloss over some exceptions and such.

For starts, LSD is not physically addictive. In fact, it's nearly impossible to become psychologically addictive. The addictivity of a drug largely depends on what receptors are binded to in the body. In the case of LSD, it binds predominately to a number of 5-HT (serotonin) receptors, and the D2 (dopamine) receptor as an agonist (which is the term used to mean "activating". The term antagonist means deactivating). Hallucinogens as a class of drugs almost exclusively bind to 5-HT receptors, or similar ones, and binding to these does not cause addiction pathways. Further, these receptors are easily "downregulated". Meaning binding to them strongly causes the receptors to desensitize to the drug. Meaning, if you took LSD, tripped, then three days later took it again, it would have little to no effect. Even if it did have addiction potential, it would physically be impossible to reach that point as it can only be used once every two weeks or so. There's further cross tolerance across hallucinogens since they all act in similar manners. You couldn't take LSD, then take magic mushrooms 3 days later, it would still have no effect.

Binding to these receptors in these manners also can not cause physical harm. Why? Because these receptors in the brain can't be harmed by this compound. You'd have to take impossibly large doses to reach deadly levels. So much so that the maximum dose of LSD isn't known. It would be billions of times higher than the amount used to trip. Because of this, LSD is non-toxic. Granted, there are some hallucinogens (such as MDMA aka excasty) that are physically harmful, but that's a serotonin releasing agent, so it's still different. The amphetamine class of hallucinogens are dangerous because they can cause fatal vasoconstriction as they bind differently.

While dopamine is known to be an addictive compound, dopamine generally needs to be the compound that does the binding to cause addiction, not some subistute. This is why something like methamphetamine is so addictive, it's a dopamine releasing agent (binding to TAAR1- which releases a number of native neurotransmitters when binded to). LSD doesn't release any, it just binds to the receptor, so no addiction.

Generally speaking, binding to the these with a non native compound such as LSD do not activate any addiction pathways. In fact, nearly all hallucinogens are not addictive. This is simply not how these receptors work, nor is it how LSD send a signal in these. Further, it's the binding of the receptors that causes the effects one experiences. 5-HT2A receptors are found to be rather numerous in the optic regions of the brain, which is reasoned to cause the visual effects that LSD is known for.

If you have further questions I'd be happy to answer.