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"Lawsuits allege it could generate black holes that could eat the Earth"

iwakar

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Bouncing off this former thread, I came across this interesting (or alarming?) CNN Article.

Excerpt:
"Deep underground on the border between France and Switzerland, the world's largest particle accelerator complex will explore the world on smaller scales than any human invention has explored before. The Large Hadron Collider will look at how the universe formed by analyzing particle collisions. Some have expressed fears that the project could lead to the Earth's demise -- something scientists say will not happen. Still, skeptics have filed suit to try to stop the project."
...
"Fears have emerged that the collider could produce black holes that could suck up anything around them -- including the whole Earth. Such fears prompted legal actions in the U.S. and Europe to halt the operation of the Large Hadron Collider, alleging safety concerns regarding black holes and other phenomena that could theoretically emerge.

Although physicists acknowledge that the collider could, in theory, create small black holes, they say they do not pose any risk. A study released Friday by CERN scientists explains that any black hole created would be tiny, and would not have enough energy to stick around very long before dissolving. Five collider collaborators who did not pen the report independently told CNN there would be no danger from potential black holes."

************************

So, does anyone here think there is a legitimate concern? I'm not scientifically savvy, but apparently there are major detractors concerning this LHC project that are trying to stop it from happening by filing suit. Reportedly, some of the scientists working on this project have received death threats. However, a number of supporters are pooh-poohing the probability not possibility, might I add that this is of real concern. Anyone care to assure me that I won't have to worry about black holes eating us alive before I go to bed?

Please and thanks. :cheese:
 
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All I know is that the LHC is a MUCH cooler way to exterminate ourselves than nuclear war, global warming or a pandemic of STDs.

Okay, well, nuclear war or global warming at least.
 

iwakar

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All I know is that the LHC is a MUCH cooler way to exterminate ourselves than nuclear war, global warming or a pandemic of STDs.

Okay, well, nuclear war or global warming at least.

:( I've always been rather hopeful that the human species would survive its own technological evolution.
 

Lateralus

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It's not going to create any black holes that sucks up the Earth. If any microscopic black holes were created (which is a long shot, from what I've read), they'd evaporate almost immediately.
 

iwakar

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I've read the same thing, but I'm curious why detractors among the scientific community (not the Church folk enamored of Revelations and the paranoid soccer moms) feel there is a graver threat. Is there some anomaly that's not being mentioned in the CNN article?
 

rhinosaur

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In the world of science, "probability" and "possibility" are pretty much synonymous, and we forget that normal people don't usually consider them as such.
 

spirilis

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I am not concerned. I vaguely recall an article I read more than a year ago talking about this, where they pointed out a parallel--that scientists back in the 40's were concerned about the detonation of nuclear armament--specifically they were concerned that detonating a nuclear bomb would "set the whole atmosphere on fire," engulfing the earth. That certainly didn't happen.

I fully appreciate the level of detail that's gone into investigating these possibilities though, but I do not believe such a catastrophe will happen.
 

iwakar

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So basically... the sum of the fear of the unknown among the scientifically aware and the scientifically unaware are contributing to a paranoid movement involving legal bureaucracy with slim substantiation to arrest this particular instance of scientific discovery? I can accept that.

I just thought there might be an anomaly I was ignorant of regarding this field of science (since I'm largely ignorant of many things in physical science) or complications largely ignored by the CNN writer due to their scientific ignorance.

Oh well. I can sleep soundly now. :) Gracias amigos.
 

Virtual ghost

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I think that no one on this frum has the knowledge to explain the entire thing.

From what I know there are chances for major disaster but that is the risk we need to take.

In the universe there are forces that can destroy life on earth just like that and no one is really worried about it. My point is that threat exists since you have been born.
 

ygolo

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Really, is the (extremely distant, near im)possibility of catastrophe the foremost thing in people's minds when it comes to the LHC?

I, personally, am excited, and would rather not have a fringe idea come to dominate a discussion where so many interesting and more plausible things could occur.

I don't pay credence to this. If you know of any scientific reasons to believe that sizable black-holes could be created that would be a different issue.

We're exploring new territory, of course we are not going to know what will happen. That's kind-of the point. Generally (like in all science and engineering projects), they will do things in stages, adding one variable in at a time.

A lot of the early experiments will be making sure they can reproduce what was done in earlier super-colliders without having anything fail. There will be set-backs and things that need to be fixed. That is the way all such projects go.
 

Carebear

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I believe black holes are God's way of making sure none of his creations get smart enough to rival him. Put in a tripwire we've got to stumble over when we get sophisticated and curious enough and voila: No more problem.

The many black holes we've discovered were probably all once hi-tech civilizations experimenting with the fabric of the universe. :D

But seriously: No. A mini-black hole can't eat earth. It'd grow a bit before it'd reached it's potential, sucking in a few particles and stuff, but unless physics has gotten it all wrong, that's it. People have been watching too many cartoons. That said: If something like this did happen, so what? Instant non-excistence, no time to worry, none to mourn our passing. There can be worse endings.
 

Xander

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OMG will people swallow anything that these "boffins" produce?

So much assumptive nonsense.

Looking at how the universe formed = I want to play with my new toy so here's my "reason".

Realistically to be completely correct the term "scientist" should be replaced with "extrapolator". It's more exact.
 

Jack Flak

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*snore...BZZZZZZ!...yawn* Physics, wha? *yawn* OK I hope the unscientific reactionaries have fun with their lawsuit.
 

Carebear

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Google's logo of the day:
lhc.gif
 

Kora

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I'm no expert, but I think there's no enough mass on Earth for creating a black hole.
 

runvardh

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I'm a churchie and into science. I also know that they're not putting enough energy in to make a black hole big enough that will last more than a millisecond. That's not enough mass to grab more sustaining material unless you actually feed it. That said, if we can create black holes with it we could be close to being capable of producing power packs that run off of Hawking Radiation. If only we could make sure it has a spin in which an electromagnetic field can suspend it. What if that could be used to power a star drive... :D
 

iwakar

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We're all alive!

How disappointing.

*rolls back over* *snores*
 

runvardh

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Which means I should go check out what results the got... eh... no they'd still be analyzing it... :doh:
 
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