Gay and transexuals

[kyuuei]

Transexuality is an internal feeling of not identifying as one's biological gender. Gayness is a feeling of being attracted to someone of the same sex for interaction of some kind, minimally, a loving bond of some kind.

Being trans is internal, being gay is more external.

Trans people have a drive to reconcile their body with their internal gender in order to feel 'right'. (please excuse semantics here, I realize there are many variations in these concepts). Gay people have a drive to be with people of the same sex to feel 'right'. In both cases, it is about changing one's biological body or function to match how one is feeling. Feelings come from many sources and are multi-varied. To say that, based on feelings, we can know that a person is gay biologically or transgender biologically is illogical, because feelings can be illogical!

If gay men have a brain similar to females it is simply because they have biologically suppressed their testosterone urges in themselves. We know that new fathers who co-sleep with babies do this as well: their estrogen increases and their testosterone decreases making them more empathic and gentle. Hormones are regulated by the brain. It should not come as a surprise to any intelligent being that this need not be a physical origin, but that it can stem from psychological origins.



I think switch is an apt word, and works well.

There seems to be a lot of anger and lashing out on Type C over gayness being from psycho-social origin rather than physical origin. And that living a gay lifestyle is a choice one makes, not something that one has to embrace. I wonder why all the anger?

I BELIEVE (my own opinion): Being gay is a disorder that should be explored for a cause and a treatment. And living a gay lifestyle is a willful choice to act out one's sexual desires in a less-than-ideal way (sinful) way.


Feeling gay is perhaps beyond someone's control, but that does not mean those feelings stem from biological origins. And no study will prove that, because it simply is not true. At least not for the majority of people who identify as 'gay'.

Instead we should be asking, "What makes me have gay feelings?" And, "Why and when did I start feeling gay feelings?" And, "What do I (as a man) feel like I can get from another man that I cannot get from a woman?"

And I think that is where the real interesting studies lie.


~Peace

And, Christians should love unconditionally, no matter what your behaviors are, or what you call yourself.

Typc doesn't hate Christianity. Just it's unintelligent followers. If a hundred people are telling you you're not being loving and nonjudgmental and christiany... You're probably not. You're being cruel, you've been cruel this whole time, every time you post about this; you're compelled to post in here because of your own hang ups with homosexuality and sin.

Give it a rest. There is a huge difference in thinking it's not right and also giving people the good will and kindness they deserve anyways and what you do. Thinking it is personally not right no one can fix. But I don't see you crusading for things the way you do in this topic. Just. Stop.

 

[HongDou]

So [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] is sick?

 

[á´…eparted]

There is no sound proof that being gay is present at birth.

Typical, ignore ALL the pushback people said. Don't even quote them, just pretend it isn't there. Too bad we see through this ply.

You want people to take you seriously on this? Then take back all of the horrible bullshit you said, and maybe people would be more willing to have a conversation with this.

By the way, this is a meaningless distinction, and even if it wasn't it wouldn't validate a damn thing you have been pushing.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Typc doesn't hate Christianity. Just it's unintelligent followers. If a hundred people are telling you you're not being loving and nonjudgmental and christiany... You're probably not. You're being cruel, you've been cruel this whole time, every time you post about this; you're compelled to post in here because of your own hang ups with homosexuality and sin.

Give it a rest. There is a huge difference in thinking it's not right and also giving people the good will and kindness they deserve anyways and what you do. Thinking it is personally not right no one can fix. But I don't see you crusading for things the way you do in this topic. Just. Stop.

Condescend much?

There is a lot of unrest and anger against me personally by you guys.

if you read my posts, there is no anger, only wonder, and wanting to get to the truth of these matters...

why are so many here so angry about gayness being something learned versus something innate?

 

[magpie]

What emotion. What self righteous fury applied unevenly. But I guess that's what the "self" part stands for.

[MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION], I'm not talking about you. Your fury is applied pretty evenly.

 

[fetus]

If being gay is an illness, then why aren't people calling in sick to work? Why is it not an excuse to take leave or apply for disability and whatnot? Because it's not an illness.
How would this go over:

Person: Hello, I can't come to work today.
Boss: Why not?
Person: I'm feeling gay.

(People actually did this in Sweden in 1979 to protest the "gay illness" notion. Makes me especially proud of my Swedish heritage, haha.)

You see, an illness or disorder is labeled as such because it causes harm or distress. Things like diabetes, cancer, and schizophrenia are real issues that pose risks to a person. Furthermore, these illnesses can be medically verified. There's no verifiable evidence whatsoever that being gay is an "illness." Being gay does not cause distress. For most, I feel like trying to change themselves and suppress their true identity would cause the distress--not being gay.

I am straight, so I cannot speak directly for LGB people, but I can imagine they would agree with me.

I'm leaving the T out of LGBT for this specific argument because it's a different issue. Gender =/= sexuality.

 

[Forever]

Condescend much?

There is a lot of unrest and anger against me personally by you guys.

if you read my posts, there is no anger, only wonder, and wanting to get to the truth of these matters...

why are so many here so angry about gayness being something learned versus something innate?

Learned implies it can be unlearned. Why didn't the therapy to remove homosexuality work then? What about those who were bullied/tortured/killed for their homosexuality? I believe if they could save their lives, I think they'd switch out of a heartbeat but it is my understanding they couldn't.

Shouldn't this be enough to sway you it's innate? If it was just a fad, I'm pretty sure gay rights wouldn't be the way they are today.

I don't think you're LDS but even them being a very conservative group of beliefs believe that homosexuality is something you're born with. It's just that you just don't act on those impulses. Not here to jest at religion but just to show that some religious groups are starting to realize. If you want more information: mormonsandgays.org

I assure you that I did not attack you.

 

[á´…eparted]

Condescend much?

HA! That was TAME compared to what you are posting.

There is a lot of unrest and anger against me personally by you guys.

Well gee, what was your first clue? Btw, it's not personal. No personal attacks have been made, it's all directed at the things you are saying, not you a person.

if you read my posts, there is no anger, only wonder, and wanting to get to the truth of these matters...

Just because there is no anger, doesn't suddenly remove the wrongness or harm or HATE in what you're saying. The truth is already known, you are actively rejecting it. Which is why we are mad.

why are so many here so angry about gayness being something learned versus something innate?

Because it's NOT TRUE and is HARMFUL and HATEFUL to say. You're fake "gentleness" and "just asking questions" does NOT even slightly soften or somehow make what you say ok, even in the slightest.

Did you even read what you said? My god.

 

[á´…eparted]

If being gay is an illness, then why aren't people calling in sick to work?

Damn why didn't I think of this before? I could go on dissability and never have to work a day in my life ever again!

 

[fetus]

[MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] My question is, why do you feel that being gay is wrong? You do not have to abandon your faith to accept homosexuality. There are Christian answers and arguments in favor of homosexuality.

I am a Christian and I am obviously 1000% accepting of homosexuality. When I was younger, the conflict between my personal values and my religion caused me distress, but I did some reading and researched logical, Biblical rationalizations for my beliefs. I am at peace now.

 

[Riva]

[MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] My question is, why do you feel that being gay is wrong? You do not have to abandon your faith to accept homosexuality. There are Christian answers and arguments in favor of homosexuality.

I am a Christian and I am obviously 1000% accepting of homosexuality. When I was younger, the conflict between my personal values and my religion caused me distress, but I did some reading and researched logical, Biblical rationalizations for my beliefs. I am at peace now.

I genuinely like to see these arguments.

 

[fetus]

I genuinely like to see these arguments.

https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php
Six reasons why the Bible is not against gays
Fifteen theological arguments for gay marriage : Changing Attitude

Just a few.

 

[Jaq]

People have their respective natures. It's a really complex topic to even think about, but I say more power to both gay and transsexual people. Let people, be people.

 

[Yama]

Why does it even matter if the guy next door was born a woman or if a gay couple lives down the street? Who the fuck cares?

I will always be baffled by people who think they need to "dissect and analyze" the "different, exotic brains" of people who are different than them. Gay and trans people are just living their lives like every other person in this world and their identities have absolutely nothing to do with anyone else and are their own. Why do people still talk about this?! News flash: difference exists in the world. Skin color exists on a spectrum, gender exists on a spectrum, sexuality exists on a spectrum, etc, etc. Why the fuck waste time and energy nitpicking how someone else is different than you?

They exist. You exist. Doesn't matter if you don't "accept" how they are or not, you can't do anything about it nor should you even care. I'm just blown away at how there are people in this world who spend their every waking moment preoccupied with their gay neighbors' bedroom life. Why not get a life of your own?

 

[Coriolis]

There is a lot of unrest and anger against me personally by you guys.

if you read my posts, there is no anger, only wonder, and wanting to get to the truth of these matters...

why are so many here so angry about gayness being something learned versus something innate?

Anger? I see at least as much pity, and it has far more to do with willful ignorance than with being gay. Yes, it can be magical to witness a child's wonder at the idea of Santa Claus, but eventually the child must grow up. He then realizes that it is the moral of Santa Claus that is real, not the flesh-and-blood old man in the red suit living at the North Pole.

You will not get to the truth by using the wrong tool for the job. The laws of physics won't tell us right from wrong, or why we are here. Religious texts likewise won't tell us how old the earth is, or shed light on the physiological bases for human differences. As long as you bark up the wrong tree, you won't catch your intended prey.

 

[magpie]

Anger? I see at least as much pity, and it has far more to do with willful ignorance than with being gay. Yes, it can be magical to witness a child's wonder at the idea of Santa Claus, but eventually the child must grow up. He then realizes that it is the moral of Santa Claus that is real, not the flesh-and-blood old man in the red suit living at the North Pole.

You will not get to the truth by using the wrong tool for the job. The laws of physics won't tell us right from wrong, or why we are here. Religious texts likewise won't tell us how old the earth is, or shed light on the physiological bases for human differences. As long as you bark up the wrong tree, you won't catch your intended prey.

Technically though, the laws of physics also won't tell us whether homosexuality can be classified as a disorder. Nor will physiological differences. Who cares if homosexuality has a biological basis? So do all disorders, according to lots. Why is everyone so upset about Aphrodite suggesting homosexuality is a disorder? I thought we didn't believe that disorders themselves were inherently stigmatizing here. So why is this different?

 

[nonsequitur]

Why does it even matter if the guy next door was born a woman or if a gay couple lives down the street? Who the fuck cares?

I will always be baffled by people who think they need to "dissect and analyze" the "different, exotic brains" of people who are different than them. Gay and trans people are just living their lives like every other person in this world and their identities have absolutely nothing to do with anyone else and are their own. Why do people still talk about this?! News flash: difference exists in the world. Skin color exists on a spectrum, gender exists on a spectrum, sexuality exists on a spectrum, etc, etc. Why the fuck waste time and energy nitpicking how someone else is different than you?

It's more a scientific curiosity to me than anything else. As you said, I don't give a fuck in the "real world", it's not even the most interesting part of people. But biologically speaking, I'm drawn to questions about how behavior/attraction/biology is physically or chemically encoded - and we now have awesome epigenetic, genetic, neuroimaging and optogenetic tools to study that. It's a professional hazard to just.. want to know I guess. Plus developmental biology is incredibly fascinating.

People like me are probably why Einstein's brain is still getting poked around with decades later.

 

[Yama]

Technically though, the laws of physics also won't tell us whether homosexuality can be classified as a disorder. Nor will physiological differences. Who cares if homosexuality has a biological basis? So do all disorders, according to lots. Why is everyone so upset about Aphrodite suggesting homosexuality is a disorder? I thought we didn't believe that disorders themselves were inherently stigmatizing here. So why is this different?

Why does it even matter? Who cares?

I'm being serious. Why do people care?!?!?

What, is classifying it as a disorder going to change something? I mean, beyond having an excuse to force people to go against their nature and try to be something they're not and live miserable lives.

 

[á´…eparted]

Why is everyone so upset about Aphrodite suggesting homosexuality is a disorder?

In order to be a disorder, something must cause harm or dysfunction. Homosexuality does neither. Take a step into the shoes of someone who is LGBT, and imagine how they must feel if they're told their natural urges and attractions are unhealthy and wrong.

Further, spreading the notion that this is somehow a disorder stigmitizes it, and causes societal mistreatment.

Classifying it as such in the past caused measurable harm.

 

[magpie]

Why does it even matter? Who cares?

I'm being serious. Why do people care?!?!?

What, is classifying it as a disorder going to change something? I mean, beyond having an excuse to force people to go against their nature and try to be something they're not and live miserable lives.

I agree. It's just interesting to see people go really far in one direction in one thread and then back pedal so hard they get whiplash in another because something that affects them personally is brought up. So they'll say they'd never associate with someone who disagrees with a diagnosis, and that psychiatric diagnoses are hard fact, and that to doubt one makes a person delusional. But the moment they don't like a diagnosis being thrown at them there's all this fun outrage and moral posturing and "don't you know the HARM it causes?! How very dare you."