Anti-Vaxxers

[ceecee]

The leftists are mainly the ones taking the covid vaccines. There's a lot fewer on the right who take it. Their reasoning basically goes like this:
(1) I am left wing
(2) the government is left wing
(3) the media is left wing
(4) We are on the same side, so I trust them and I'm going to take the covid vaccine because they tell me to.
Also I don't look at any alternate media sites so I'm ignorant as shit and the only info I have to go on is establishment propaganda, nothing but lies.
(5) oh no I just found out I'm sterile. Well at least I'm safe from covid because I listened to people I trust.

The left only care about labels and who is on the same side as them and who they think they can trust. They don't think in terms of facts and logical reasoning.
In the end the joke is on the left because they drank most of the coolaid. I can't wait until you all find out it was all a big lie and you were scammed.

You don't know a single leftist, obviously and LOL at thinking the USG is left wing but wow, get some professional mental health care.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

yare yare...

 

[everything__dies]

Oh Uncle, oh uncle!
Our tearful aunt is done.
The shaft has 'sorbed every lick,
The prize she got is none.

 

[ygolo]

Relevant because before there was anti-vax regarding COVID, there was anti-vax regarding autism.

Good Autistic Advocacy Organizations vs. Bad Autism “Charities”

Image description: Examples of good autism advocacy organizations at the top, such as the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, Autistic Inclusive Meets, the Autistic Women and Nonbinary Network, and Aut…

intheloopaboutneurodiversity.wordpress.com

Something similar has been said on self advocacy networks that I am part of.

The main problem is treating Autism as terrible affliction that happens to someone (their child, spouse, etc.) rather than a difference that needs support and coping abilities. Even research into understanding the causes can be split along similar lines.

There is a maxim I wish would become part of any conversation: Nothing about us without us.

I would extend this to treatments and organizations that deal with anything. Deaf people should be the majority of people on the boards dealing with deaf people. Same with black people, gay people, trans people, and in this case Autistic people. We need people who understand the problems people are dealing with from the inside. Stroke associations should have majority stroke survivors. Heart disease associations should have majority of people suffering heart disease. I could go on.

 

[highlander]

I've had all five COVID shots, never got it, and haven't died yet from the vaccines (or the flu shot this year for that matter). I suppose the Dunning-Kruger effect may be a thing here. I think it is more likely confirmation bias which is exacerbated by disinformation, pushed to people by machine learning algorithms, that feeds them information that supports pre-existing views, which were formed by disinformation to begin with. It's a flaw in the human mind and how we process things that serve us well in many ways but maybe not in today's world. That to me is the root cause of people not discerning or understanding actual evidence and facts in items such as the benefits of vaccines.

 

[ceecee]

I've had all five COVID shots, never got it, and haven't died yet from the vaccines (or the flu shot this year for that matter). I suppose the Dunning-Kruger effect may be a thing here. I think it is more likely confirmation bias which is exacerbated by disinformation, pushed to people by machine learning algorithms, that feeds them information that supports pre-existing views, which were formed by disinformation to begin with. It's a flaw in the human mind and how we process things that serve us well in many ways but maybe not in today's world. That to me is the root cause of people not discerning or understanding actual evidence and facts in items such as the benefits of vaccines.

My husband and I had our flu shots at Costco last week and our 5th COVID boosters two weeks prior. No third eye or extra appendage growth yet.

What is amazing to me is the extent of doubt and disbelief in the actual science and factual results of a case study of millions and millions of people over the course of a couple years (in addition to the decade of development of the vaccines) and the instant acceptance of nearly every nefarious claim, disinformation and obvious lies. Maybe this is Dunning-Kruger, I'm not sure but all you have to do is read some posts above for an example.

My parents also disputed this claim as some kind of Dem election strategy.

Studies consistently find higher Covid death rates among Republicans than Democrats

Lower vaccination rates among Republicans could explain the partisan gap, but some researchers say mask use and social distancing were bigger factors.

www.nbcnews.com

Naturally the lack of trust in intuitions and government plays a huge role but this is way beyond that alone.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

People tend to react to fear with certitude because it was helpful back when we were being attacked by wild animals. Then the bravado that wins the battle and now the football game was adaptive for survival.

Now we are faced with a scientifically complex problem that requires both intelligence and a significant amount of training and knowledge to actually understand. People are dying and it is scary, so people want to feel that bravado and in control. Those who see the virus as the "enemy" lean towards getting the vaccine. Those who see authority as the "enemy" correlate that with the vaccine and are more inclined to use human conflict tactics and bravado to "win".

During the pandemic I spent hundreds of hours reading articles, watching lectures to tried to understand the situation. I researched the history of mRNA vaccine development which has been going on since the 1960's. I do not have mastery of the knowledge base. An extremely small percentage of humans do. Uncertainty and making choices without being in full control both in comprehension and power is scary. But this isn't a football game with teams that compare levels of bravado to win and be "right".

Science is one of the few safeguards we have as humans. It is one of the few corners of clear thinking. Yes, it is flawed when intertwined with money and politics, but in this situation, the most reasoned course of action based on evidence is to take the pandemic seriously and either use extreme distancing or get vaccinated. The fear mongering messed with my head a little on two of my five COVID-19 shots, but it is the reasonable course of action. I feel like my best chances are with science and not emotionally frightened people.

 

[highlander]

My husband and I had our flu shots at Costco last week and our 5th COVID boosters two weeks prior. No third eye or extra appendage growth yet.

What is amazing to me is the extent of doubt and disbelief in the actual science and factual results of a case study of millions and millions of people over the course of a couple years (in addition to the decade of development of the vaccines) and the instant acceptance of nearly every nefarious claim, disinformation and obvious lies. Maybe this is Dunning-Kruger, I'm not sure but all you have to do is read some posts above for an example.

My parents also disputed this claim as some kind of Dem election strategy.

Studies consistently find higher Covid death rates among Republicans than Democrats

Lower vaccination rates among Republicans could explain the partisan gap, but some researchers say mask use and social distancing were bigger factors.

www.nbcnews.com

Naturally the lack of trust in intuitions and government plays a huge role but this is way beyond that alone.

I did a study on the pandemic for school before we had the vaccine. It was analyzing the impact of public policy - such as closing restaurants, gyms, mask-wearing, etc. on the number of cases. Blue states had a lot fewer COVID cases per capita than red states and restaurant closures had the biggest impact on reducing the spread.

I was watching the second debate between Obama and Romney from 2012 earlier today. It was a pretty intelligent discussion. It just struck me how Republicans collectively have somehow lost their minds. It wasn't like this even ten years ago.

 

[The Cat]

One way or another....everyone dances to the music.
The same principles can be applied not only to this funky fresh blast from the past;
but any show that must go on.
Life is a cabaret after all...
​

 

[Coriolis]

I did a study on the pandemic for school before we had the vaccine. It was analyzing the impact of public policy - such as closing restaurants, gyms, mask-wearing, etc. on the number of cases. Blue states had a lot fewer COVID cases per capita than red states and restaurant closures had the biggest impact on reducing the spread.

I was watching the second debate between Obama and Romney from 2012 earlier today. It was a pretty intelligent discussion. It just struck me how Republicans collectively have somehow lost their minds. It wasn't like this even ten years ago.

They certainly have. I have tended to vote more for Democrats over the years, but there were plenty of Republicans I respected as people of integrity who were reasonable to work with. They didn't think compromise was a dirty word, or consider someone evil or traitorous simply for having a different perspective on something. With few exceptions, those Republicans seem to have retired, dropped out, or been voted out, leaving the GOP now mostly a circle jerk for Trump's flying monkeys. Our two party system - problematic at the best of times - is now down to one party and one circus.

 

[everything__dies]

I was watching the second debate between Obama and Romney from 2012 earlier today. It was a pretty intelligent discussion. It just struck me how Republicans collectively have somehow lost their minds. It wasn't like this even ten years ago.

You can call Romney a Republican but that's as far as it goes. What you think about having "lost their minds" is the same as some people think about Obama and Trump and I voted for both because I think both are great Americans of the uniparty!!!

The last real Republican president we had before the globalist politicians sold the country to the bankers

 

[highlander]

You can call Romney a Republican but that's as far as it goes. What you think about having "lost their minds" is the same as some people think about Obama and Trump and I voted for both because I think both are great Americans of the uniparty!!!

The last real Republican president we had before the globalist politicians sold the country to the bankers

I don't want to get off-topic but I looked at 40 minutes of this debate and found myself agreeing with 90% of what Romney said and felt Obama resorted too much to rhetoric which is always a turn-off to me. Romney was a good candidate. He had integrity. He was rational and I agreed with his policies. That being said, I voted for Obama in that election because I felt he had done a very good job with one of the most challenging financial crises in our country's history. I think it's hard for a first-term president that does a decent job to not get re-elected. The first Bush did a good job but the economy was down and he was against a very charismatic and intelligent Bill Clinton. Things like that are exceptions. My point though related to this thread is that Republicans in large part have seemed to go batshit crazy, which is part of this whole stupid antivax thing, and I remember a time not too long ago when there were serious, thoughtful people with integrity who were leaders there.

 

[highlander]

There are potential negative reactions to the Covid vaccines. It's important to take into context just how rare they are:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

 

[ceecee]

There are potential negative reactions to the Covid vaccines. It's important to take into context just how rare they are:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

But millions have died from receiving the vaccine!

Claims that millions of people have died from the COVID-19 vaccine are unfounded - Poynter

The claim is based on a misreading of sources that include the U.S.'s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and Europe’s EudraVigilance databases.

www.poynter.org

Not a fan of the Pinocchio or pants on fire fact checking but this claim is widely believed by the anti-vaxxers.

 

[highlander]

But millions have died from receiving the vaccine!

Claims that millions of people have died from the COVID-19 vaccine are unfounded - Poynter

The claim is based on a misreading of sources that include the U.S.'s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and Europe’s EudraVigilance databases.

www.poynter.org

Not a fan of the Pinocchio or pants on fire fact checking but this claim is widely believed by the anti-vaxxers.

It's like mass delusion. Such a strange thing. I used to think people were much more rational.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think we're seeing the results of fringe interest groups (who used to be smaller and had to communicate via chain letters or monthly mailings and similar) melded to the Internet for the last 20-25 years. Everyone is on the Internet now and it's easy to find other people with similar ideas. The power can be positive but can also be abused. In this case, it allows for easy proliferation of disinformation and blocking out dissenting voices so you can exist in your own little informational ecosphere.

It's like viruses that had previously been confined to small groups suddenly were released into the world at large, and now have proliferated quickly and contaminated everything. (Anti-vax indeed; they've already been infected with the viruses of misinformation, without the skills or desire to learn how to screen/evaluate information, and now this is the price.)

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

 

[ceecee]

It's like mass delusion. Such a strange thing. I used to think people were much more rational.

Media has done an excellent job of cheering on this psychosis, doesn't matter the political bent.

 

[KurtCobain]

Surprised this hasn't gotten more replies. Let's talk, guys. This is important. Maybe let's turn this thread into "how to argue an anti-vaxxer." I don't know. I just feel really strongly about this issue.

A strong centralized world state that enforces common decency would be a step in the right direction. Some people need a strong leader to do the right thing.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

From what I understand there are increased deaths from cardiac and vascular issues, so people are now trying to tie it to the vaccines, but there could be many other causes including COVID-19 after effects. Early on there was more discussion of the blood clotting issue with COVID-19, and I was concerned we would be seeing an increased number strokes and cardiac issues after the initial pandemic. Other causes could be the population's weight gain and increased alcohol consumption and decreased exercise at gyms, moving around during these pandemic years.

I do think the increased cardio-vascular issues needs to be researched and try to find the cause and correlation, but without jumping the gun on the cause.

 

[ceecee]

From what I understand there are increased deaths from cardiac and vascular issues, so people are now trying to tie it to the vaccines, but there could be many other causes including COVID-19 after effects. Early on there was more discussion of the blood clotting issue with COVID-19, and I was concerned we would be seeing an increased number strokes and cardiac issues after the initial pandemic. Other causes could be the population's weight gain and increased alcohol consumption and decreased exercise at gyms, moving around during these pandemic years.

I do think the increased cardio-vascular issues needs to be researched and try to find the cause and correlation, but without jumping the gun on the cause.

Johns Hopkins and The Mayo Clinic both have studies on this but I doubt it's going to show up in mainstream media or social media. I wouldn't trust the CDC on anything as they simply crumble in front of corporate American and right wing pressure and are no longer interested in providing public health info to the people of this country.

My feeling is and has been this entire time - people frequently have undiagnosed heart disease, hypertension, cardiac problem, diabetes or family history of blood clots for which they have zero knowledge. People don't see a doctor due to cost, lack of insurance, lack of accessibility, especially in rural areas. They get the vaccine as it was free, paid for my the USG and all of a sudden they have cardiac issues and non-medical bad actors all agree it's 100% from the vaccine? I have a hard time believing that in any numbers. Same thing on COVID deaths. Most of these people certainly had comorbidity that were undiagnosed for years. The virus was simply the final assault the body couldn't take.