How tall would 16 buildings need to be to house the world's population? (split)

[EcK]

[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]

on another note, wouldn't diseases like typhoid and cholera be a major problem in an overcrowded environment of the sort? and wouldn't it be like the towers in the megacities in Judge Dredd?

Good point. I guess it's more challenging to actually keep the suckers alive. So we might as well be discussing about that. Now why are we talking about 19th century illnesses? People still get that? Wasn't it cured or something?
I guess you'd have to either specifically try and fix it one by one or try to fix in at the root. Like say, in Asimov's foundation trilogy for example spacers were 'desinfected' (ie: there were no illnesses in colonies) Now of course that's not as easy as it sounds (extended quarantine, and dna viruses like herpes would still get their way to a degree, also there s lots of symbiotic bacteries so sorting it all out would be a bit complicated. I guess you could put someone in several quarantine phase with heavy amounts of antibiotic mixes to try and get rid of most bugs before putting these people in these 'environments')

I mean there's always the dream of smart nanotech that fixes you and all but we're not quite there yet


[MENTION=22098]Mane[/MENTION]

So you are saying we need to apply an ultra violent fascist regime to make this work? That might not be a bad idea...

Well so far we've essentially been planning to put all of humanity in boxes for no other reason than for our own sick amusement so I'm not sure what to call it, fascism would be one word for it I guess.
We could make them worship the 'world machine'/ cube-verse and all. Imagine what happens when they start finding out about other cubes! We could connect them with vicious passage ways humorously inspired by the movie 'the cube'

 

[Ivy]

The person who started this thread was you

This thread, I don't think we care what you do with it, as long as it's not to carry over conflict that is now irrelevant.

Carry on, my wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done.

 

[EcK]

I'm an INTP, but I also tend to irritate some more rigid folks with my tangents, to the extent of annoying other INTPs. One moderator at INTPcomplex called it "fluff." I tried to ask for clarification on what they meant by it, but the response was essentially "I know it when I see it." Of course, I sometimes wonder if that person was an INFJ.

Those evil infjs.
There's one in the room next door as I speak. Lurking. Glaring. Like the eye of Sauron

- - - Updated - - -

Carry on, my wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done.

No Supernatural inspired derails! (yeah I know the song is actually not 'the show' but you know how people associate things)

 

[EcK]

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - To answer the spots that [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] missed in the move:

uploading/scanning would be the best solution for a huge number of reasons, as long as you don't mind the technically dying part, but I am not sure if earth's orbit is the best location.

On One hand you want to save the extra load on your heat radiators, which means you want as little sun as possible, but on the other you want good solar collection nearby. Also setallites on earth have a limited lifespan, in part because the exact center of earth's gravity kind of shifts around with the spin, not by much but enough to give us a hard time... You could solve all 3 problems by putting it in a geocentric point just behind Mercury.

I mean how would it stay there and not orbit mercury? Not very familiar with mercury. I mean it helped to prove Einstein's views over Newton's due to rotation speed...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I mean how would it stay there and not orbit mercury? Not very familiar with mercury. I mean it helped to prove Einstein's views over Newton's due to rotation speed...

I should add that just because Einstein proved Newton wrong, it doesn't mean Newton did not create something of value.

 

[Mane]

The "we're not here" part eludes to an interesting point:

A lot of what we think of as modern technology is stuff that could have been done in some way a long time ago knowledge-wise, but is done now because we have the option to do it in a way that extends on our infrastructure.

Theoretically we could have had google and wikipedia using fax machines and giant call centers decades ago, but we wouldn't have been able to afford it. Von Braun could have had Germany land a rocket on the moon in ww2, but with not yet having enough bang for the buck it wouldn't be realistic for them to have enough.. Well, buck. The Romans could have had steam engines, but slaves were a lot cheaper then coal. It's not just technological progress, it's economical progress.

And in that sense... we aren't here yet anyway. We can theoretically build one structure big enough to house everyone alive, but no entity on earth living right now can afford too.

 

[Mane]

I mean how would it stay there and not orbit mercury? Not very familiar with mercury. I mean it helped to prove Einstein's views over Newton's due to rotation speed...

Very slowly - mercury is nearly tidal locked to the sun, it's day takes 2 of it's years.

 

[miss fortune]

That's kind of what I thought. That would be a problem. Unless they had some sort of bio-filters that could isolate and contain dangerous pathogens.

that, protocols about sanitation and handwashing, possibly making everyone wear masks... and a really completely impressive and amazing sewage system

further precautions would have to be taken with the elderly, children and people with compromised immune systems as well...

How do you think hospitals work?

by getting people out of there as quickly as possible before they pick up too many more infections?

So you are saying we need to apply an ultra violent fascist regime to make this work? That might not be a bad idea...

it didn't work out all that well in the movie though... they couldn't even prevent criminal gangs from arising with all of the surveillance and such that they had!

Good point. I guess it's more challenging to actually keep the suckers alive. So we might as well be discussing about that. Now why are we talking about 19th century illnesses? People still get that? Wasn't it cured or something?
I guess you'd have to either specifically try and fix it one by one or try to fix in at the root. Like say, in Asimov's foundation trilogy for example spacers were 'desinfected' (ie: there were no illnesses in colonies) Now of course that's not as easy as it sounds (extended quarantine, and dna viruses like herpes would still get their way to a degree, also there s lots of symbiotic bacteries so sorting it all out would be a bit complicated. I guess you could put someone in several quarantine phase with heavy amounts of antibiotic mixes to try and get rid of most bugs before putting these people in these 'environments')

I mean there's always the dream of smart nanotech that fixes you and all but we're not quite there yet

not to mention that people do require some space for things like food preparation, bathing and not being packed in tighter than sardines in a can, which would change the space requirements. Access to sunlight would probably be beneficial as well... and how would it be guaranteed that everyone would have access to food, water and medical care (which is really necessary if everyone is living in such close quarters)

and what would you do with the sick and dead?

just basing this on the history of various epidemics and plagues and how they spread through highly populated tenements and such (i.e. Hell's Kitchen and disease in the olden days)

 

[BadOctopus]

I remember in the game Sim City 2000, you could build bio-domes (called Arcologies in the game) that were basically self-contained cities that could hold huge populations. I used to think those were pretty rad.

Although the Launch Arco looked kind of like a robot that was crossing its legs like it had to pee.

 

[Mane]

it didn't work out all that well in the movie though... they couldn't even prevent criminal gangs from arising with all of the surveillance and such that they had!

The 1st one or the 2nd one?

The 1st one I remember, because I was 10 and it had cloning and a flying bike and a gun that can be all guns in one... The newer one I.. Fall asleep while trying to watch it. Twice.

 

[Mane]

I remember in the game Sim City 2000, you could build bio-domes (called Arcologies in the game) that were basically self-contained cities that could hold huge populations. I used to think those were pretty rad.

Although the Launch Arco looked kind of like a robot that was crossing its legs like it had to pee.

They had it in the expension for the new one too:

 

[EcK]

I should add that just because Einstein proved Newton wrong, it doesn't mean Newton did not create something of value.

Yeah of course. I mean to me theories are not absolute. They're tools we use. The guy who invented the spork did not negate how awesome forks are. The finer our control, the vaster our powers of observation the 'better' our theories are going to be. but that doesn't mean Newton's work wasn't fracking impressive for the time. Or that some guy who invented wonderful ways to carve silexes (silexi?) wasn't just as accomplished in his age.

 

[miss fortune]

The 1st one or the 2nd one?

The 1st one I remember, because I was 10 and it had cloning and a flying bike and a gun that can be all guns in one... The newer one I.. Fall asleep while trying to watch it. Twice.

I want a flying bike!

either one involves a bunch of shit going down that a properly oppressive and authoritarian government with all kinds of power wouldn't have to deal with... those criminals would be baking the government COOKIES instead of doing bad things and nobody would have to shoot anyone because the bad elements would have already been weeded out and taken to Room 101 or something

 

[BadOctopus]

They had it in the expension for the new one too:

Well. That's much more impressive.

 

[EcK]

that, protocols about sanitation and handwashing, possibly making everyone wear masks... and a really completely impressive and amazing sewage system

further precautions would have to be taken with the elderly, children and people with compromised immune systems as well...

Then after a few thousands of generations maybe the lowest levels would have mole people. Just saying.
[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]
From the perspective of the structure of the city however I don't think you need more than just copy an existing city. There's no need reinventing the wheel with that. And we can focus our energies on finding new applications to existing tech and developing existing solutions which don't have a big market due to people never dreaming of living in giant boxes (the fools).

The issue with lots of large projects is that we imagine we have to reinvente the wheel when we just have to repurpose methods we already know. Also depending how long u want these ppl to last in there u need to make sure they can produce etc. everything they need in excess if possible. If you give them 'options' they should figure things out on their own. I mean we don't want them escaping or anything but they're humans, smart buggers overall (relatively)

I mean we have this fetish of breakthrough technology and science but truth is Einstein and Newton were living in environments where their ideas were in one way or another already floating around. They didn't suddenly come up with some idea 1000000 years ahead of everyone else. However history doesn't retell it in that way and we lose lots of small details and then have this strange fetish for sci-fi tech as we imagine that history advanced in big leaps. I don't think it does. Our tech could do the trick if we wanted it to. If we really wanted to put 7,000,000,000 people in 16 boxed environments

as [MENTION=22098]Mane[/MENTION] puts it it's a matter of economics rather than technology usually. It's all a matter of how much stuff we do with how much 'bucks'. When it becomes something viable and better yet better (ie: cheaper/economically worthwhile) than the alternative for large numbers of people then there's a market for it. (for example, cars)

and what would you do with the sick and dead?

rations? No wait, bad idea. Prion diseases

 

[miss fortune]

Then after a few thousands of generations maybe the lowest levels would have mole people. Just saying.
[MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]
From the perspective of the structure of the city however I don't think you need more than just copy an existing city. There's no need reinventing the wheel with that. And we can focus our energies on finding new applications to existing tech and developing existing solutions which don't have a big market due to people never dreaming of living in giant boxes (the fools).

The issue with lots of large projects is that we imagine we have to reinvente the wheel when we just have to repurpose methods we already know. Also depending how long u want these ppl to last in there u need to make sure they can produce etc. everything they need in excess if possible. If you give them 'options' they should figure things out on their own. I mean we don't want them escaping or anything but they're humans, smart buggers overall (relatively)

I mean we have this fetish of breakthrough technology and science but truth is Einstein and Newton were living in environments where their ideas were in one way or another already floating around. They didn't suddenly come up with some idea 1000000 years ahead of everyone else. However history doesn't retell it in that way and we lose lots of small details and then have this strange fetish for sci-fi tech as we imagine that history advanced in big leaps. I don't think it does. Our tech could do the trick if we wanted it to. If we really wanted to put 7,000,000,000 people in 16 boxed environments

as [MENTION=22098]Mane[/MENTION] puts it it's a matter of economics rather than technology usually. It's all a matter of how much stuff we do with how much 'bucks'. When it becomes something viable and better yet better (ie: cheaper/economically worthwhile) than the alternative for large numbers of people then there's a market for it. (for example, cars)




rations? No wait, bad idea. Prion diseases

part of progress, however, is rejecting things that don't work and moving on forward and from a public health viewpoint packing people into a tight space with possible lack of access to fresh air, sunlight and easily accessible facilities hasn't worked out all that well... either there's problems with disease or with crime (at least in the US... I'm most familiar with our history with tenements and public housing)... and if you're really lucky you get both disease AND crime!

and there's always the people who don't do all that well in cramped quarters... I'd probably either kill someone else or myself after a short duration of staying there because I HATE anywhere where I have a lack of personal space and privacy

I just don't know that humans are evolved, either physically or psychologically for such a means of living

sure, technological breakthroughs and such are nice, but quality of life is the most important thing on a day to day basis

and I DON'T want kuru! (or soilent green)

 

[Bush]

... wait. Did anyone say that we had to keep the population alive? Or even not dismembered? That would simplify things.

 

[Mane]

part of progress, however, is rejecting things that don't work and moving on forward and from a public health viewpoint packing people into a tight space with possible lack of access to fresh air, sunlight and easily accessible facilities hasn't worked out all that well... either there's problems with disease or with crime (at least in the US... I'm most familiar with our history with tenements and public housing)... and if you're really lucky you get both disease AND crime!

and there's always the people who don't do all that well in cramped quarters... I'd probably either kill someone else or myself after a short duration of staying there because I HATE anywhere where I have a lack of personal space and privacy

I just don't know that humans are evolved, either physically or psychologically for such a means of living

sure, technological breakthroughs and such are nice, but quality of life is the most important thing on a day to day basis

and I DON'T want kuru! (or soilent green)

Hmm I am not one to often wave the green flag, but... What about ecological benefits?

Denser populations mean less energy on commuting, narrower distributions of goods, more centralized services, and a much wider territory to let nature reclaim - especially if we included vertical farming within the structure and let go of our farmlands outside. What if learning to live like this can save the ecosystem for future generations? And you know, other species and trees and crap.

Not to mention that if we are giving people apartments and roads and shops rather then beds with feeding tubes, then we already know that people can live like that and even like it - we do so in today's cities all the time. Hell, we could even include parks and some housing with private yards on the roof.

 

[Totenkindly]

... wait. Did anyone say that we had to keep the population alive? Or even not dismembered? That would simplify things.

heh. Well, I almost got to the end of the thread before someone stole my thoughts from me.

Why not just put everyone in a large blender and make cat-food patties out of them?
I bet we could really pack things in.

It really is interesting, though, to get a sense of relative population density. I find it more interesting how densely living conditions are in Manila, tbh, compared to some other regions... just a very very different living experience.

So... Considering the friendship between Hard & EJCC (And showbread?) and her general call to action attitude and his general dislike of shenanigans, is anyone else kind of surprised they haven't split the thread yet, or even simply moved the non-Hard stuff to the off topic? Did it not get noticed yet? Are they too busy? Are they taking the time to think things through (J/k), or has it really not gotten reported yet?

Thanks for reminding me -- I should report this thread so that you aren't disappointed. Edit: Oh wait, did it already get split at least once? Rofl.

 

[Kas]

How do you think hospitals work?

Treating people in a short time so they can leave hospital quickly


I agree with [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] I couldn't live with so many people having a little place for my own. Never ever.

I remember in the game Sim City 2000, you could build bio-domes (called Arcologies in the game) that were basically self-contained cities that could hold huge populations. I used to think those were pretty rad.

Although the Launch Arco looked kind of like a robot that was crossing its legs like it had to pee.

I had Launch Arco and it was cool. Looked very dignified and not at all like it had to pee.