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The Security Thread

highlander

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Where are the passwords stored, and how secure is that server/location? I don't trust anything in the cloud further than I can throw it.

Moreover, unless you enable some form of two-factor authentication, you are back to the case of one password which, if cracked, allows someone to access all your accounts.

That is the one risk I worry about. They are stored in the cloud. You do have one master password that you have to remember that gives you access to the database. A lot of people use strong authentication for the master password.

Here is an article about LastPass that recently did have a breach with details on what the risk is.

Password Manager LastPass Warns of Breach — Krebs on Security
 

Tater

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I have a question. How secure is google drive? I recently learned that some of the local school districts use google docs and google drive, having the students (as young as elementary age) do work in google docs and then post it in their google drive. There is nothing sensitive here in the manner of financial information or industrial secrets. I'm sure, though, that none of these students would want their awful 8th grade essay, or journal account of some personal experience, trotted out later when they are 26 and looking for a job - or a date. The parents are not asked to approve storage of their students' work in the cloud, and sadly the teachers I have spoken with seem to have no understanding at all of what the cloud even is. They had no idea the student work was stored outside the school building, much less outside the school district.

Am I being paranoid, or is there a legitimate concern here?

I would look at Google's terms and ownership of the content that is placed out there.

cloud infrastructure tends to grant more layers of security than does the average in-house i.t. infrastructure. cloud providers usually dump more revenue into the process of maintaining their servers and the edges of their networks. in addition to the general superiority of their technical controls, they also benefit from dedicated physical security, complete with clean server rooms, locks, biometrics, and "defense-in-depth".

the internet has more-or-less relied on cloud technologies since its birth; only in the past half-decade has the "cloud" become a marketable buzzword. the only novel aspect involved is the fact that providers have realized how much they can profit from p.a.a.s./i.a.a.s./s.a.a.s. subscriptions, while other companies small and large benefit by outsourcing services and transferring risks they would normally have to handle in-house. financial losses would have been greatly mitigated if more people had established parity of their data during 9/11 through cloud technology. additionally, it should be noted that cloud networking has provided a reliable means of preventing denial of service attacks.

the biggest issue involved in virtual outsourcing is that cloud providers must typically ensure privacy for their clients, which means that prospective clients have fewer resources for performing risk assessments. you can't always know the specs of a server or the traffic in your virtual network when so many other user activities go on there. that's what makes migration to the cloud so counter-intuitive.

it's disheartening when such a large chunk of cloud intrusion detection must depend on client-side reports.

veering into more political territory, law enforcement doesn't necessarily need a warrant to pressure a cloud provider into forking over your information. if you're really in the mood for tin foil hats, there's also the risk that your cloud provider may decide to analyze your data to extract meta-data. or worse, sell it off to an interested party like that of an intelligence agency.

on the bright side, the cloud seems to be provoking end-users into actually reading their terms of service. ffs, [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] could implement a clause into typec's terms of service about how all new users must grant [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] custody of their first born child and nobody would know the wiser.

edit: risk management really boils down to the question of what you're going to store or develop. if the price of the data probably outweighs the cost of the surrounding control framework of your provider, don't put it in. if it's top secret or confidential, don't put it in. no need to pull a hillary clinton.
 

Tater

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[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] , glad you hopped off the old voice-chat server. also good to hear the database storing forum posts is segmented from other forum databases.

my two cents: you would do well to avoid implementing non-essential features on the forum. every new bell and whistle carries with it new vulnerabilities to exploit. they may look innocuous, but you'd be surprised at what a persistent individual could do with stray data.
 

Tater

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a personal favorite presentation on data administration and general security:


jimmy kimmel provided some interesting insight, which can be reflected in older studies:

 

highlander

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[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] , glad you hopped off the old voice-chat server. also good to hear the database storing forum posts is segmented from other forum databases.

my two cents: you would do well to avoid implementing non-essential features on the forum. every new bell and whistle carries with it new vulnerabilities to exploit. they may look innocuous, but you'd be surprised at what a persistent individual could do with stray data.

For that reason, we mostly stick with commercial modifications from a company called DragonByte. Their code is reputed to be pretty good and they are very active in maintaining their codebase with frequent patches and updates which helps to manage the risks.
 

Coriolis

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veering into more political territory, law enforcement doesn't necessarily need a warrant to pressure a cloud provider into forking over your information. if you're really in the mood for tin foil hats, there's also the risk that your cloud provider may decide to analyze your data to extract meta-data. or worse, sell it off to an interested party like that of an intelligence agency.
It is things like these that concern me. Moreover I don't see how storing information on some remote server in a location I know nothing about, perhaps don't even know where it is, and cannot control, is more secure than putting it on a computer (or file cabinet) in my house that has no internet connection. Sure, a data center probably has much better physical security than my house, but then someone would have to be targeting me specifically to have an idea that my house has data worth stealing. When your information is part of some huge database or storage server, people who don't even know you exist can run across it and decide it is worthwhile enough to steal or abuse.

Getting back to the school: the analog would be a building-wide internal network, completely separate from the internet, simply for sharing work among students and teachers and accessing shared resources like printers. Or, simply have students write assignments by hand, on paper, the "old-fashioned" way.

In any case, I find it scary whenever people are heavily reliant on something they have made no attempt to understand.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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It is things like these that concern me. Moreover I don't see how storing information on some remote server in a location I know nothing about, perhaps don't even know where it is, and cannot control, is more secure than putting it on a computer (or file cabinet) in my house that has no internet connection. Sure, a data center probably has much better physical security than my house, but then someone would have to be targeting me specifically to have an idea that my house has data worth stealing. When your information is part of some huge database or storage server, people who don't even know you exist can run across it and decide it is worthwhile enough to steal or abuse.

Getting back to the school: the analog would be a building-wide internal network, completely separate from the internet, simply for sharing work among students and teachers and accessing shared resources like printers. Or, simply have students write assignments by hand, on paper, the "old-fashioned" way.

In any case, I find it scary whenever people are heavily reliant on something they have made no attempt to understand.

I think that privacy is a big concern, but I'm more worried about the threat of terrorism. Carly Fiorina seems like a feminist who is more likely to protect this country from ISIS. Clinton couldn't even stand up to her own husband, how can she stand up to ISIS?
 

Coriolis

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I think that privacy is a big concern, but I'm more worried about the threat of terrorism. Carly Fiorina seems like a feminist who is more likely to protect this country from ISIS. Clinton couldn't even stand up to her own husband, how can she stand up to ISIS?
I disagree with your political assessments, but won't pursue that here as it would be a derail.

Interesting that you mention ISIS, though. My biggest concern regarding them is the way they have been using the internet to gain recruits and organize activities. Two can play that game, though, and I hope US authorities are exploiting online information to go after these folks. Which brings us back to privacy concerns. If we cannot do this while respecting privacy of law-abiding citizens, we become as bad as they are.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I disagree with your political assessments, but won't pursue that here as it would be a derail.

Interesting that you mention ISIS, though. My biggest concern regarding them is the way they have been using the internet to gain recruits and organize activities. Two can play that game, though, and I hope US authorities are exploiting online information to go after these folks. Which brings us back to privacy concerns. If we cannot do this while respecting privacy of law-abiding citizens, we become as bad as they are.

I'm not comfortable with that. This approach sounds like supporting terrorism. Why do you want terrorists to win?
 

Coriolis

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I'm not comfortable with that. This approach sounds like supporting terrorism. Why do you want terrorists to win?
I don't want us to do their job for them by running roughshod over individual liberty and privacy. The point is I think we can go after organizations like ISIS online while respecting the privacy of the law-abiding. Sometimes it takes more effort, but it also should garner more results by focusing efforts on the real problem.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I don't want us to do their job for them by running roughshod over individual liberty and privacy. The point is I think we can go after organizations like ISIS online while respecting the privacy of the law-abiding. Sometimes it takes more effort, but it also should garner more results by focusing efforts on the real problem.

What about my liberties? Say what you will about the GOP, at least it respects freedom and doesn't keep on imposing rules.
 

Coriolis

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What about my liberties? Say what you will about the GOP, at least it respects freedom and doesn't keep on imposing rules.
We should save such a discussion for one of the threads on politics. If you don't see one suitable, you can start a new one.
 

Tater

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It is things like these that concern me. Moreover I don't see how storing information on some remote server in a location I know nothing about, perhaps don't even know where it is, and cannot control, is more secure than putting it on a computer (or file cabinet) in my house that has no internet connection. Sure, a data center probably has much better physical security than my house, but then someone would have to be targeting me specifically to have an idea that my house has data worth stealing. When your information is part of some huge database or storage server, people who don't even know you exist can run across it and decide it is worthwhile enough to steal or abuse.

Getting back to the school: the analog would be a building-wide internal network, completely separate from the internet, simply for sharing work among students and teachers and accessing shared resources like printers. Or, simply have students write assignments by hand, on paper, the "old-fashioned" way.

In any case, I find it scary whenever people are heavily reliant on something they have made no attempt to understand.

a caveat i would add here is that hackers often take what they can get. many use automated processes to identify vulnerabilities among wide ranges of ip addresses, regardless of whether the addresses occupy the cloud. in addition, the average user will likely use their pc to browse the internet, where threats lie in wait.

to follow industry standards and procedures, the teams managing a cloud server will be patching their machines asap. furthermore, a cloud server (in particular, a storage server or a software server) will be supporting more consistent traffic, usually surrounded by more layers of encryption.

however, as you aptly noted, network/machine isolation acts as an ultimate security control - one that cloud services fail to encourage. i fear that the more the market promotes cloud services, "cutting edge" devices will basically be treated as thin clients by default. in other words, moore's law may become increasingly irrelevant as users rely on the processing power and memory of remote machines. my point is that users may not even be hardly able to use their devices if they're not facing the internet. on a fundamental level, this trend leaves them open to exploitation.
 

Coriolis

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however, as you aptly noted, network/machine isolation acts as an ultimate security control - one that cloud services fail to encourage. i fear that the more the market promotes cloud services, "cutting edge" devices will basically be treated as thin clients by default. in other words, moore's law may become increasingly irrelevant as users rely on the processing power and memory of remote machines. my point is that users may not even be hardly able to use their devices if they're not facing the internet. on a fundamental level, this trend leaves them open to exploitation.
This starts to look like the old days of users logging into a mainframe, rather than having the actual computing power right on their desks, as the desktop/laptop revolution offered, at least until now.
 

Tater

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This starts to look like the old days of users logging into a mainframe, rather than having the actual computing power right on their desks, as the desktop/laptop revolution offered, at least until now.

bingo.

----------------

cyber-crime.jpg


taken from: http://www.go-gulf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cyber-crime.jpg (2013)

i've seen statistics that conflict with some of this; for instance, in the past 5 years, it was recorded that the most common motivation behind a cyberattack was to commit a crime (ie. to gain profit). however, these stats furnish some decent rough estimates.
 

Tater

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today i stumbled on a security control that adds a layer of encryption and business governance for cloud services. 'fasoo' implements digital-rights-management with cryptography that was developed in korea. while i'm confident this means that it's already been cracked or vetted by the u.s. government in some way, it would still deter a vendor or an insider from breaching your personal information.

Vaultize | Enterprise Digital Rights Management | eDRM | Enterprise DRM

Fasoo Enterprise DRM Protected Files | Digital Rights Management

not all cloud vendors use this layer of security, but maybe you can use this information in some way for your professional life [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]
 
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