• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Quantum weirdness

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
No thrown gauntlets to real geeks here, real physics here ! xD
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
The destructive part of the interference pattern... that's what convinces me.

Otherwise, I would say things like, "well the particles could be spinning in weird ways, etc."

Also, I am not sure what you want to discuss.

If you're looking for an opportunity to simply discuss and wonder about quantum mechanics and the sheer oddness of it. I'm all for it.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
I have not much to discuss, yet; I am currently reading some mathematics about QED. I tend to fall asleep, while reading but it is not the topic that is uninteresting, it is the mass amount of text :).

The Book is from the Feynman Lectures , Part 3.

I posted this thread to see, if someone else is intrested in the topic and knows some intresting theories already. If I can help it and not fall asleep during reading, I will be up to speed in 2 or 3 weeks
 
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
1,026
MBTI Type
ENTP
I consider the double-slit experiment, from my non-mathematical background, very simply one more in a growing series of experiments which are warning us that some of the emphasis in physics needs to be shifted to biology and neuroscience in order to understand what happens when we perceive 'physical' events... it's also vindicating some of Kantian theory (along with other similar philosophical theories of the past).
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
It's undeniably weird, but take a look at history. Things tend to turn out rational after all.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
What are people's ideas for why wave functions collapse under observation?
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
well, if it didn't, we wouldn't have two vital things: Continuity and a Static Fabric to swim in. Everything would be a wonderous mess
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I *am* quantum weirdness, but it has nothing to do with physics. If you have question regarding this topic, feel free to ask. :D

Okay, please continue....
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I *am* quantum weirdness, but it has nothing to do with physics. If you have question regarding this topic, feel free to ask. :D

Okay, please continue....

Yes, you are a small package and a little strange. :D
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
In your face quantum mechanics

I'm watching this now, seems like its going to be good:

[GVIDEO=-4674461198051839963]In your Face Quantum Mechanics[/GVIDEO]

Edit:Excellent video!
An improvement on Bell's Experiment that is MUCH simpler, a very satisfactory explanation on why the wave function collapses, and even an exposition of randomness from a quantum mechanical perspective.
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP
The worst class of my undergrad life was classical quantum mechanics only because I delayed it till my senior year and the last time I took a math class was partial differential equations during my freshman year. The theories I could gobble up in a heartbeat but some of the mathematical manipulations were just so ridiculous without using mathematica or some other math program. I remember one take home question with calculating the dipole from 1S to 3D orbital in the hydrogen atom taking over six pages of calculus with my microfont handwriting (over three days of work on the problem mainly reviewing my calc skills).

The coolest thing about the double slit experiment is that it shat on the idea that we knew everything their was to know about the world, which was hottly becoming a common belief in the late 19th century.

want to have some fun at home, get a cheap laser pointer, shove it between some heavy books to keep it on, and point it at a white flat wall. then get two credit cards (I used text books to stabalize them so they didn't wobble) and have them make an extremely thin (sub millimeter) slit that the laser can see through and then stabalize everything that way. Go to the wall, and you will see a single slit diffraction pattern. Next hang a rock from a string and then hang the string from a platform and have it intersect the laser coming from your slit right in the middle. next do the credit card thing again to the string in the middle to make a double slit. They have to be very close to each other and they have to be close in size and maybe about 2-3feet from the first slit or less if you want, but atleast ten feet away from the wall and wallah, you just proved that light is a wave. Without having two guys to help you or some creative stabalization methods, this easier said than done, but what is more fun than a in home double slit experiment reproduction. If you are interested, I can give more detailed plans or do a you tube video and even show you how to get the cathode ray tube out of an old CRT monitor or tube tv and use the phosphorous screen as a detector for the electron part of the experiment.

Oh yeah and the diffraction pattern will be very small unless your wall is really really really far away and you have a really bad ass laser. have fun.

EDIT: By the way, the heavy handed mathematical manipulations in the class seem to have a knack for taking out all the fun in these theories.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The worst class of my undergrad life was classical quantum mechanics only because I delayed it till my senior year and the last time I took a math class was partial differential equations during my freshman year. The theories I could gobble up in a heartbeat but some of the mathematical manipulations were just so ridiculous without using mathematica or some other math program. I remember one take home question with calculating the dipole from 1S to 3D orbital in the hydrogen atom taking over six pages of calculus with my microfont handwriting (over three days of work on the problem mainly reviewing my calc skills).

The coolest thing about the double slit experiment is that it shat on the idea that we knew everything their was to know about the world, which was hottly becoming a common belief in the late 19th century.

want to have some fun at home, get a cheap laser pointer, shove it between some heavy books to keep it on, and point it at a white flat wall. then get two credit cards (I used text books to stabalize them so they didn't wobble) and have them make an extremely thin (sub millimeter) slit that the laser can see through and then stabalize everything that way. Go to the wall, and you will see a single slit diffraction pattern. Next hang a rock from a string and then hang the string from a platform and have it intersect the laser coming from your slit right in the middle. next do the credit card thing again to the string in the middle to make a double slit. They have to be very close to each other and they have to be close in size and maybe about 2-3feet from the first slit or less if you want, but atleast ten feet away from the wall and wallah, you just proved that light is a wave. Without having two guys to help you or some creative stabalization methods, this easier said than done, but what is more fun than a in home double slit experiment reproduction. If you are interested, I can give more detailed plans or do a you tube video and even show you how to get the cathode ray tube out of an old CRT monitor or tube tv and use the phosphorous screen as a detector for the electron part of the experiment.

Oh yeah and the diffraction pattern will be very small unless your wall is really really really far away and you have a really bad ass laser. have fun.

EDIT: By the way, the heavy handed mathematical manipulations in the class seem to have a knack for taking out all the fun in these theories.

i wish there were ways to learn more about physics without needing a PhD in math...

im absolutely horrible at calculus! ...yet i so deeply wish to understand what physics says about the nature of our universe. the hardest part of trying to understand physics on a "made easy level" is that its often wrong. you end up with crap like "what the bleep do we know" which is just physics heresy according to people who know what the hell they are talking about....

physics made easy: that isnt actually wrong or trying to further some new age cult.... thatd be a good book!
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Try "The Feynman Lectures on Physics - Volume III - Quantum Mechanics" by Richard Feynman. You can read it without knowing anything from vol. I + II and without knowing anything about math and physics.

It is written pretty clearly and intresting.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
All most all of Feynman's material is accessible to lay-people, even QED, his own theory, is very accessible.

I also recommend Six Not-So-Easy Pieces (also Six Easy Pieces: Essentials of Physics Explained by Its Most Brilliant Teacher)

Not that this focuses on quantum mechanics, but you'll have an amazingly good micture of the "Standard Model" of physics after reading these.

However, as far as math goes. I suggest you learn about Hibert Spaces at least (just enough to interpret the inner-product style notation). It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run.
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP
i wish there were ways to learn more about physics without needing a PhD in math...

im absolutely horrible at calculus! ...yet i so deeply wish to understand what physics says about the nature of our universe. the hardest part of trying to understand physics on a "made easy level" is that its often wrong. you end up with crap like "what the bleep do we know" which is just physics heresy according to people who know what the hell they are talking about....

physics made easy: that isnt actually wrong or trying to further some new age cult.... thatd be a good book!

Lol, technically, its (the video) a pretty good layman example of the double slit experiment in the most genral (ENxP's most favorite thing) way. You get the gist of the results. Also, just to make you happier, you must understand the theory first before you try to explain it mathematically, only issue is you won't pass the class if you don't know the math, because all the questions in these classes are usually solving schrodinger equation... and using fourier transforms or some other thing made to piss off people of a biological background who are not super grounded in differentials.
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP
All most all of Feynman's material is accessible to lay-people, even QED, his own theory, is very accessible.

I also recommend Six Not-So-Easy Pieces (also Six Easy Pieces: Essentials of Physics Explained by Its Most Brilliant Teacher)

Not that this focuses on quantum mechanics, but you'll have an amazingly good micture of the "Standard Model" of physics after reading these.

However, as far as math goes. I suggest you learn about Hibert Spaces at least (just enough to interpret the inner-product style notation). It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run.

I think he is a biochemistry major if I am correct and if so he would be forced to take all the pre-requisites for physical chemistry which is like baby quantum which should have him well on his way to understanding it.
 

Lateralus

New member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,262
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
What are people's ideas for why wave functions collapse under observation?
It's not possible to be completely disconnected and still observe an event. I think that our presence alters the event in some fashion, but how exactly? That's beyond my understanding, though I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's somehow related to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in the 10th or 11th dimension, or something along those lines.
 
Top