Why Science is so Hard to Believe

[Xander]

[MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION]

Not to mention if the point is to pry money out of somebody who doesn't speak your native language then you might as well just lie for all they know. This makes the person needing the translation basically defenseless and prone to liabilities.

So why not just make out like you know what you're on about and make stuff up about science? How would I know?

 

[sprinkles]

So why not just make out like you know what you're on about and make stuff up about science? How would I know?

That's exactly the point. You speak about needing to know so you can decide what gets funded, but if you don't know whether you're getting sound information or bullshit then it doesn't matter to begin with and you might as well flip a coin.

Basically you don't need to be making those kinds of decisions in that status.

 

[Xander]

That's exactly the point. You speak about needing to know so you can decide what gets funded, but if you don't know whether you're getting sound information or bullshit then it doesn't matter to begin with and you might as well flip a coin.

Basically you don't need to be making those kinds of decisions in that status.

My point precisely. So it doesn't matter whether I hire a scientist or a con artist. They're the same.

 

[sprinkles]

My point precisely. So it doesn't matter whether I hire a scientist or a con artist. They're the same.

Um no they're not. One would do the right job and the other not necessarily. Not being able to tell the difference between two things IS NOT those things being the same.

 

[Xander]

Um no they're not. One would do the right job and the other not necessarily. Not being able to tell the difference between two things IS NOT those things being the same.

So do the same with communication. Do the job right and don't fudge it.

 

[sprinkles]

So do the same with communication. Do the job right and don't fudge it.

That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[Xander]

That doesn't even make any sense.

In best Yoda voice
"and that is why you fail".

 

[sprinkles]

In best Yoda voice
"and that is why you fail".

Now you're being ridiculous.

 

[Coriolis]

The point I'm trying to make about scientists though us that the views expressed in this thread seem to be putting scientists on a pedestal.

If people at large put scientists on a pedestal, they would have much more admiration and regard for what we do than is actually the case. They would spend their free time finding out more about us and our work, just as many of them now track every move of their favorite celebrities or pro athletes. They would conduct scientific inquiry on an amateur or recreational level "just for fun", same as they might play golf or join a garage band.

The fact is they don't. This shows how it is not a gap in intelligence or ability that keeps the public largely ignorant of science, but rather a gap of values and interest.

 

[Xander]

If people at large put scientists on a pedestal, they would have much more admiration and regard for what we do than is actually the case. They would spend their free time finding out more about us and our work, just as many of them now track every move of their favorite celebrities or pro athletes. They would conduct scientific inquiry on an amateur or recreational level "just for fun", same as they might play golf or join a garage band.

The fact is they don't. This shows how it is not a gap in intelligence or ability that keeps the public largely ignorant of science, but rather a gap of values and interest.

Small divergence in meaning. Put on a pedestal as in there are many complimentary elements assumed by the name such as high intelligence.

Wouldn't a form of recreational science be sci-fi and the long conversations about various scientific curios like light clocks etc? Sure it's not a prevalent as vinegar in a chip shop but it's not doing bad for what can be a very dry and technical subject.

 

[sprinkles]

Wouldn't a form of recreational science be sci-fi

No. Sci-fi is entertainment and is a lot of times damaging to science.

and the long conversations about various scientific curios like light clocks etc?

No. Science is not about enjoyable conversations and showing intelligence (scientists don't actually care about nerd cred all that much)

Sure it's not a prevalent as vinegar in a chip shop but it's not doing bad for what can be a very dry and technical subject.

It's supposed to be dry and technical. And besides, this thread is about difference in opinion, not about being included in the scientific community. Being more inclusive does not necessarily solve the issue.

 

[sprinkles]

Also I would note that there seems to be an idea about scientists being elitist or liking to display their intelligence, or thinking people are too stupid.

This is not true. What most scientists care about is the integrity of science. They care more about preserving scientific validity than they care about themselves (or you)

 

[Xander]

No. Sci-fi is entertainment and is a lot of times damaging to science.

No. Science is not about enjoyable conversations and showing intelligence (scientists don't actually care about nerd cred all that much)

It's supposed to be dry and technical. And besides, this thread is about difference in opinion, not about being included in the scientific community. Being more inclusive does not necessarily solve the issue.

I understand your opinion that science and scientists stand apart from the whole of human existence and anything but the most austere and serious spheres of work but it's my opinion that you're talking horseshit (to be blunt). If you can't see the links after all this time then perhaps you're best working in a small room somewhere secluded.

Also I would note that there seems to be an idea about scientists being elitist or liking to display their intelligence, or thinking people are too stupid.

This is not true. What most scientists care about is the integrity of science. They care more about preserving scientific validity than they care about themselves (or you)

Your entire attitude is based around derision of any approach which does not match your and you ally yourself with the identity of "scientist" to the degree I find it difficult to separate the two...and yet you now claim humility.

Science = figure shit out. End of. No fancy shit, no titles. Just getting the job done. The things they look at include things postulated in scifi and the things in scifi are inspired by science. Science is interesting or no one would pursue it unless they were very well paid. History is dry and technical but the best historian/ communicators can bring it to life, I have seen the same done with science. Step 1 in solving a difference in opinion is trying to get each side to see things from their "opponents" perspective and this means bringing people together to have the conversation on common ground.

I'm hoping that's phrased bluntly enough that you can extract the parameters for your next thesis.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION]

I guess you don't need the explanations after all since you've got it so figured out.

 

[93JC]

Personally, like many, I have little idea how a supercharger or turbo works in my car. I do, however, know enough to expect turbo lag and a boost to acceleration.

There's no lag with a supercharger.

 

[ygolo]

[MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION] [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] and any other interested people.
In the spirit of this thread, I will be trying to explain my own research in simple terms around 9PM Pacific Time, this Saturday on ventrillo (Epsilon Machine room).

Contructive criticism is welcome.

 

[Xander]

[MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION] [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] and any other interested people.
In the spirit of this thread, I will be trying to explain my own research in simple terms around 9PM Pacific Time, this Saturday on ventrillo (Epsilon Machine room).

Contructive criticism is welcome.

Cool. If I can get there, I will do. Though I'm not sure a mud thirties guy who still asks why repeatedly will be your cup of tea, I'll give it a bash. Thanks.

 

[kyuuei]

[MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION] [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] and any other interested people.
In the spirit of this thread, I will be trying to explain my own research in simple terms around 9PM Pacific Time, this Saturday on ventrillo (Epsilon Machine room).

Contructive criticism is welcome.

Ventrilo is still down for me. :/ I haven't been able to get it to work on my computer in months.. something about a glitch for previous owners of AVG anti-virus software + ventrilo software is going on, and I've tried everything I can think of and seen online to get the program to work again.. until I get a computer tech guy to complete vaporize AVG from my system, restart my computer and do a good clean install of everything, I'm boned. But I'd love to be there, I'm super interested in that. (Also I like it when you talk. /creepy.)

 

[93JC]

(Also I like it when you talk. /creepy.)

That's not that creepy. If you'd said "You got a real purty mouth," that'd be creepy.

 

[kyuuei]

That's not that creepy. If you'd said "You got a real purty mouth," that'd be creepy.