Nature VS Modern Medicine and weeding out what truly works.

[Lexicon]

I understand that "all organic" may be extremist and unfounded, but their show in reality disproved absolutely nothing. They are entertainers, they set up the show to be entertaining and find ways to win. Anyone could do that if they don't use multiple sources, so they are right maybe half and half, they aren't all bad, but they are not an objective scientific source.

Absolutely. I thought the intent of the show was to make the audience question the subjects of each episode, presented in an entertaining way. The personal bias is there, as it is in any TV show that addresses controversy, but the push to question extreme lifestyles like "The Organicsons" was the overall purpose, I think.

I feel like that in of itself has some merit.. plus, it's funny.

 

[1487610420]

Yeah, if you want to be healthy, it's best not to go to a doctor. Don't get surgery unless you absolutely cannot function. And don't take any medications.

Oh, you think you must take some medications? I say you don't. You tell me what you think you need to take and I'll tell you why you don't.

Yeah, kind of but not really, it's only if, and it's a big IF, for it to work.
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...proves-mind-heal-post2366932.html#post2366932

ETA:but the belief is one of the primary factors, so IF enough others are also present, maybe.

 

[Thalassa]

I am no more naive about being a doctor than naturalists are about herbal medicine. I believe in what doctors do, and the work they put into their careers and what they go through. And I'll be the first to tell you I've had some awesome horror stories with doctors nearly killing my mother with one-tracked thinking.

With that said, I'm not naive to say that doctors have to really want to be doctors. If people go in it for the money, it's because money is that strong of a motivator. The profession is a hard one, and 9 out of 10 doctors right now do Not recommend young people go to medical school because of the work load and craziness.

Yeah, they have to be good at taking tests. But they have to be good at a LOT of things to make those tests happen. Medical school is the first step. You spend years and years working under the supervision of other doctors to become a great one.

I'm doing the barney version of medical school right now with nursing school. And Yeah, some of those girs SUCK at their job in reality and are great at tests. But those girls also will gain that experience with time and effort. No one starts out great at their jobs. And you can't expect an entire population to be stellar. It's not naive, however, to say OVERALL doctors are not money-hungry lazy test-takers that can't think outside the box. That is just as naive, and a lot less founded in actual experience.



First. A dentist is not a doctor. It's a god damn dentist. And second, your sister got your sister hooked on pain pills. I don't think that dentist was exactly forcing those down her throat. She could have decided to stop those at any time. I don't see what any of that has to do with the fact that I think people are giving doctors and modern medicine an unnecessary bad rep lately with not a whole lot of evidence backing it up, and that I think people are trying to take modern medicine 2 steps backwards with their hippy bullshit.


I'm almost positive somewhere in this thread I mentioned bad doctors definitely exist, so I don't see why you think I'm thinking doctors are all magical life-making machines of salvation. I just think that the stuff they do wrong makes more sense than hippies going bananas over vaccines because a celebrity thinks they're not cool. That hippy shit tends to catch fire like crazy with the internet, and before you know it, people are doing unsanitary and stupid things in the name of being 'natural' and pretending they're not super hypocritical the whole way home.

I honestly think you have doctors on a pedestal, and yes a dentist is a doctor, lol. I don't want to argue with you because it would be pointless but I don't think you understand what I mean. ...there are preventative and alternative methods of Healthcare, and Western medicine tends to view through a lens of sickness rather than health, and parts rather than a whole, which is going to have fundamental flaws, and I think your little rant about hippies is insulting and simplistic, but you are entitled to your opinions ...you went way beyond the anti vaccine movement into actually bashing natural medicine.

I hope you understand that any person licensed to dispense medication who does so with intent to make money from a habitual user or addict is a drug dealer.

 

[Thalassa]

Absolutely. I thought the intent of the show was to make the audience question the subjects of each episode, presented in an entertaining way. The personal bias is there, as it is in any TV show that addresses controversy, but the push to question extreme lifestyles like "The Organicsons" was the overall purpose, I think.

I feel like that in of itself has some merit.. plus, it's funny.

I do like some episodes and I used to watch it several years ago, but their political bias irks me at times, and I started to take issue with them after they were blatantly incorrect about second hand smoke, I started to kind of feel like instead of calling the show Bullshit they should start calling it The Confirmation Bias of Gen X Archie Bunkers. ...I feel that way about other mediums though that aren't libertarian, like the Guardian I mentioned, seriously I couldn't take one more article.

 

[Thalassa]

Well I don't think the blame lies with your sister. At the worst, you could say she was just ignorant of the power of the pills. But really, she had just put her faith in a healer (strange that it was a dentist) and just did what the doctor ordered.

I told a story of when I almost broke my hands (don't punch holes in your walls, mmmmkay?? check out my blog for the story and pics and xrays if you're bored) and though the pain wasn't excruciating, my doctor gave me 60 of the strongest percocets. Normally that amount is prescribed to bone cancer patients according to my brother, The Surgeon. Which, if I hadn't flushed them after 5 days, I would have gone through some bad withdrawals. But I also know a lot about medications.

Doctors take an oath, they have personal responsibility, and yes they are to blame, and it’s partly because they get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies for pushing certain products (ever had a doctor give you samples? ) and the truth is, you can't demand things of a doctor that he or she refuses to give you, so yes the responsibility lies with the individual doctors. This problem would be decreased significantly if we like Western Europe made other public servants like police, fire fighters, teachers and professors and valuable as doctors, and paid them a little more and doctors a little less. Not a lot less because they do put in so much schooling, but it shouldn't be a way to climb the capitalist ladder, it's taken a lot of the ethos out of medicine. There are good doctors out there, but there are. ...others. I mean like the people who tried to induce my sister into labor, they can charge more for that. Its garbage. I am so proud of her for being strong, but she's an F dom too, ain't nobody mess with her. (Different sister, btw.)

 

[Thalassa]

That's 178 people who took the time to write a review on Amazon. We really don't know how many people have tried this method and what the success rate is.



It's not 7%. I believe Dr. Pagano claims a 95% success rate with his patients.

Here are some before and after photos of Dr. Pagano's patients:

Patients Who Have Been Treated By Dr. Pagano

It's like Dr. Abram Hoffer and his ortho molecular therapy for schizophrenia. ...I did a project on it for high school anatomy because we had to do a project on medical treatment of a disease. It's pretty obvious that there are very balanced ways to approach medicine that blend the natural with the modern, because the natural aspect is generally what supports overall health (like giving schizophrenic patients vitamins that treat the brain and nervous system, along with ONE antipsychotic med instead of over medication, this man was a revolutionary, schizophrenic people were mostly heavily sedated as recently as twenty five years ago)....I also agree with what you said about some people in the medical industry not wanting people to get well, it goes back to medicine becoming a drug business and with it so hinging on profit instead of helping people.

I know all doctors are not evil, I have friends who are doctors, and my cousin is a nurse. I grew up around elderly and sick people because of my grandparents and because my grandfathers wife was an NAII in a nursing home. .my mom actually went to nursing school and is one of the biggest natural medicine people I know, but she also accepts Western medicine in balance. My grandfather refused to die in a hospital but he lived to be eighty. A lot of people of his generation didn't see doctors much until they were practically dying.

I am definitely not anti vaccine, but ironically I know vaccines are a part of the reason the world is over populated, so I take a passive stance on it. It's a touchy one.

 

[Nicodemus]

Yeah, if you want to be healthy, it's best not to go to a doctor. Don't get surgery unless you absolutely cannot function. And don't take any medications.

Oh, you think you must take some medications? I say you don't. You tell me what you think you need to take and I'll tell you why you don't.

Is this trolling or are you really that ignorant?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

lol. you and i have this pattern, don't we? you never can believe i would ask what i ask. why is that?

i'm completely srs!

 

[Nicodemus]

lol. you and i have this pattern, don't we? you never can believe i would ask what i ask. why is that?

i'm completely srs!

Because it is so fucking stupid and I keep giving you the benefit of the doubt. Really, you have to actively shield yourself from knowledge to be able to believe some of the things you believe.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Oh, baby. when you talk to me like that....mmmmm. getting to like it.

 

[grey_beard]

Nature is full of medicine and Western medicine is full of mistakes. Trusting innovation for its own sake is equally idiotic and outdated. In the 50s people thought science and plastic would save us all...and look at the unintended consequences it has wreaked. So a balanced approach is absolutely necessary. The cause of a lot of modern ailments I'd poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of sleep and over exposure to technology, which leads to depression and anxiety if not used in balance. It's all about the balance. Technology is good, vaccines obviously save children, but Western medicine is also the fuck hell out of control, it's largely reduced to pharmaceutical marketing, and many minor ailments and general health are better served with natural antibiotics like raw garlic and raw honey (still treats strep and MRSA and doesn't cause mutations). Same with treatment of tumors with some natural substances, when it's basically been proven in many cases chemotherapy just expedites death. But some modern medicine does save lives, naltrexone is practically a miracle substance used to treat a variety of conditions, and I think we should all be happy to not have polio.

If I had more time, I'd engage you (as the courts say, affirming in part and dissenting in part).
tl;dr version is "Fish oil for the win. Keep an eye on your gut microbes (indiscriminate use of antibiotics = BAD); look out for possible effects of growth hormones & the like."
Boo junk foods & soft drinks; take your vitamin D; walk and do weightlifting."

And as always, YMMV.

 

[Tellenbach]

It's like Dr. Abram Hoffer and his ortho molecular therapy for schizophrenia

I finished reading a textbook on the treatment of cancer by Emanuel Revici earlier this year. The book was published in 1965 I believe. In this book, Dr. Revici states that he found peroxides in 87% of the urine samples of several thousand schizophrenics. In healthy people, he found only 4%. Now one would think that the medical establishment would investigate this claim and see if schizophrenia might be a problem of metabolism that produces peroxides, but after Revici was quacklisted by the American Cancer Society, this book was ignored completely. The amount of useful knowledge is startling. In this book, Revici revealed that n-butanol (6.5%) stops bleeding or hemorrhaging; it also prevents shock and it's a potent painkiller, reducing post-operative pain by up to 90%. The latter claim was independently tested by an ear doctor and published in some ear medicine journal. To date, there have only been two independent tests of Revici's work, one in Italy and one in the US and both got positive results.

The book is posted online if you're interested:

Research in Physiopathology as Basis of Guided Chemotherapy

 

[Raffaella]

Yeah, if you want to be healthy, it's best not to go to a doctor. Don't get surgery unless you absolutely cannot function. And don't take any medications.

Oh, you think you must take some medications? I say you don't. You tell me what you think you need to take and I'll tell you why you don't.

How do you treat epilepsy then? By isolating the person?

What about pneumonia? Or should we just let sepsis develop?

What about necrotising fasciitis?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

How do you treat epilepsy then? By isolating the person?

What about pneumonia? Or should we just let sepsis develop?

What about necrotising fasciitis?

Rx in Order:

Cannibis oil
frankincense oil/RC oil
Blend of essential oils

 

[Raffaella]

The cause of a lot of modern ailments I'd poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of sleep and over exposure to technology, which leads to depression and anxiety if not used in balance.

Seborrheic dermatitis is one of the many "modern ailments" not caused by poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of sleep or technology.

It's all about the balance.

And prevention.

Western medicine is also the fuck hell out of control, it's largely reduced to pharmaceutical marketing.

I'm from a western country, we're switching mostly to generics and year by year, pharmacists are being paid less for dispensing.

and many minor ailments and general health are better served with natural antibiotics like raw garlic and raw honey (still treats strep and MRSA and doesn't cause mutations).

Refresh my mind, which minor ailments?

Same with treatment of tumors with some natural substances, when it's basically been proven in many cases chemotherapy just expedites death.

Provide resources to back your claim.

 

[Raffaella]

Cannibis oil

Can you provide research to back this claim? All I've found is a questionable scientific paper published in 2013 on it's use in Dravet syndrome, a rare syndrome. Also, it's illegal here and, as far as I know, you need a prescription in the US. Hmmm... I wonder where you get those?

frankincense oil/RC oil

Okay, so you're on the side of sepsis. Prognosis: limb amputation, organ dysfunction, death.

Blend of essential oils

Prognosis: death.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

lol. I hear the feds are/were leaning toward making it legal because of a girl who had a major seizure problem. Her mom fought hard for cannibis oil in some southern state and they refused. Her daughter kept deteriorating and they had to move. When she finally got the oil, her seizures nearly stopped.

Essential oils kill bacteria, viruses, yeast, protozoa, and even cancer.

You can take them internally, inject them, breathe them, or rub them on.

 

[kyuuei]

I honestly think you have doctors on a pedestal, and yes a dentist is a doctor, lol. I don't want to argue with you because it would be pointless but I don't think you understand what I mean. ...there are preventative and alternative methods of Healthcare, and Western medicine tends to view through a lens of sickness rather than health, and parts rather than a whole, which is going to have fundamental flaws, and I think your little rant about hippies is insulting and simplistic, but you are entitled to your opinions ...you went way beyond the anti vaccine movement into actually bashing natural medicine.

I hope you understand that any person licensed to dispense medication who does so with intent to make money from a habitual user or addict is a drug dealer.

lolz if you didn't want to argue the topic, I would think you wouldn't bother posting at all.

Natural medicine preys on people just as much and if not more than modern medicine. All the damn time. Completely using false facts, misleading people, abusing passive-aggressive-and-technically-politically-correct tones to market and sell and sell and sell some more to people who genuinely want to do the right things for their body and buy into advertising because that's what it's designed to make people do.

And, unlike doctors, no one needs to go through any real training to become a provider of natural medicine. If having an optimistic view of doctors is naive and simplistic, then that's fine with me. Without my education and training I could have easily seen myself throwing away hundreds of dollars on snake oils, and even with it I've been duped by natural medicine's 'miracle' bullshit quite an embarrassingly-many times. So, yeah, I'm not nearly as optimistic about it, and I think it needs to be very closely scrutinized before beginning any natural remedy.

 

[Nicodemus]

lol. I hear the feds are/were leaning toward making it legal because of a girl who had a major seizure problem. Her mom fought hard for cannibis oil in some southern state and they refused. Her daughter kept deteriorating and they had to move. When she finally got the oil, her seizures nearly stopped.

Essential oils kill bacteria, viruses, yeast, protozoa, and even cancer.

You can take them internally, inject them, breathe them, or rub them on.

How would you treat polio and smallpox?

 

[prplchknz]

I think if nature actually cured cancer and polio and aids and epilepsy vaccines would've never been invented nor modern medicine, we wouldn't need it. and the fact that yellow fever and polio are no longer around, and the discovery of pencillian saved a lot of lives from bacterial infections I think modern medicine is far more powerful than natural remedies.