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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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  1. #311
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    I don't see it as an either/or, but a rather both/and situation. Not all of "Western" medicine is Big Pharma, insurance companies, or hack doctors having a Brave New World moment in history. Nor is all of "Eastern" medicine the realm of hippies, new agers, or quack doctors having a pebble moment in the ocean of eternal enlightenment. Both "sides" do have much to account for in terms of their pockets (large and small) of extremism.

    When I see some anti-vaccine types consider "Western" medicine to be evil conspirators in the shadows, I wonder if they would bring their young child to a distant foreign country in the East without getting vaccinated. When I see some anti-natural remedy types consider it "Eastern" or "hippie" to treat oneself with St. John's Wort, locally produced honey, or a nasal rinse with a Neti pot, I wonder what 20th century medical textbook common sense is hiding under.

    When we accept the differences between causes, correlations, symptoms, and cures- well I think we might just get somewhere important. Until then, all I see is a turf war for dominance that completely misses the point of medicine: the health and life of individual human beings.

    I thank God for doctors and "Western" medicine, and thank God for the "East" not allowing us to forget that humans are more than a material-biological object. For all the extremists on both sides, they will realize one day that neither "side" has the cure for what gets us all: death.

    Now if only we could "cure" that societal problem called lack of individual self-discipline and responsibility. Maybe then we wouldn't look in all the wrong places for all the answers to why we are ill.

  2. #312
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Americans are breathtakingly inactive. The French are not.

    Edited to add- the Japanese also have far lower incidence of obesity, but they eat tons of rice and noodles. They also walk a few thousand steps a day more than Americans, on average.
    Sugar. Americans are full of a toxin called sugar.

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  3. #313
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    Writing books isn't the same as suppressing a movement.
    Dr. Burzynski is not allowed to sell his antineoplastons across state lines and Vitamin C is rarely used to treat cancer. Basically, alternative treatments are the method of last resort in treating cancer when they should be used before any chemo or radiation.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    The government doesn't steer people's nutrition. It tries, sure. But Americans have been this way for a while
    Don't you think establishment sources have steered people away from cholesterol and saturated fats?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    France walks EVERYWHERE. I was just there. It's STUPID expensive to even be able to drive, more less own a car. Everyone walks and bikes. Japan too. 10,000 steps is a huuuge movement right now for nutrition because of the Japanese.
    You only burn 100 calories per 2500 steps. That's not even 1 candy bar. Sure it helps, but the problem with Americans is BOTH too much carbs and not enough exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    .... Are you seriously saying the Japanese don't eat as much rice as Americans?
    No. I was referring to total carbs. Americans consume 200 lbs each year; I doubt the Japanese eat as much.
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  4. #314
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Dr. Burzynski is not allowed to sell his antineoplastons across state lines and Vitamin C is rarely used to treat cancer. Basically, alternative treatments are the method of last resort in treating cancer when they should be used before any chemo or radiation.
    Your point here is highly debatable. Alternative medicine for a long long time was the ONLY way to treat cancer. We didn't see stark advances in regression until chemo and radiation. It isn't the only way, sure, but telling people Vitamin C in high doses is just as effective as chemo for their cancer is completely misleading and the evidence backs that up.

    Even the people that "cured" their cancers with holistic means usually don't bother to emphasize that they used western medicinal properties as their MAIN cure. Surgery in some cancers on its own shows high percentage cure rates. So they'll say they removed the tumor, and then did holistic medicine. Meaning the data is garbage. Holistic medicine could have helped.. but definitely didn't do anything for the bulk of curing cancer. Even the people trying to get others to cure cancer with alternative medicine aren't gambling their own lives on it. That, to me, speaks volumes, and I've already linked about the subject here before.

    Don't you think establishment sources have steered people away from cholesterol and saturated fats?
    Oh they certainly have. It's one of the great things hippies are doing right now--showing people fats aren't the bad guys, that real food is a good thing even if it's high calorie and high fat. The kind of fat matters. The no-fat and fat-free diet thing was HUGE in the 90s, and remnants of it remain heavily in place.

    But the root of my question is: Why did it become popular? Because advertising, marketing, and quick-fix schemes that don't fix anything.

    Detox diets are the new fad now.. And guess what is at the core of juicing? No Fats. Low protein. Just real fruits and vegetables and nothing else for 2 days and boom you're great. There's been mixed research and consensus on whether fasting helps or hurts the body, and in the end thoughtful fasting with a knowledge basis doesn't hurt anymore than eating regularly. What IS very similar between the fat-free devil's food cakes and $9 16oz bottles of juice is: they're fat free, they're advertised as 'kick starting' weight loss, and they range from 2 days to 14 days. It's still the same concept on either side of the coin. Quick fixes to stop feeling guilty for the sins of enjoying a cheeseburger.

    You only burn 100 calories per 2500 steps. That's not even 1 candy bar. Sure it helps, but the problem with Americans is BOTH too much carbs and not enough exercise.
    The French eat carbs with every single meal. How is bread NOT a french staple? You can't throw a dead cat without hitting a bread shop, I was there. They serve it to you no matter what kind of restaurant you walk into. The french have healthier recipes, no denying that, but carbs aren't the issue alone. Burning carbs isn't the only reason, nor should it be the sole reason, for walking. Walking is what people were made to do.. the less we do it, the more our body suffers. Too many studies have shown sedentary lifestyles have far more adverse effects than what kind of diet you eat. And they manifest quicker.

    It's why NASA is paying $170 a day + $1200 a week for bed-studies for astronauts.. paying people to lay in bed and not get up for 70 days and then rehabilitating them. People aren't made to sit still. So even with the vastly different variety of lifestyles and diets between the French and the Japanese, walking is a very clear common denominator.

    No. I was referring to total carbs. Americans consume 200 lbs each year; I doubt the Japanese eat as much.
    I'd guess you wrong. Their top 5 staples for traditional diet: Rice, green tea, vegetables, fruits, and fish. Three of those 5 are carbs. Vegetables and fruits are carbs as well.. the carbs aren't the evil, the KIND of carbs I will give you that but saying the Japanese eat less carbs than Americans I'll still say no to that. Rice with every meal = a fuck ton of carbs.
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  5. #315
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Your point here is highly debatable. Alternative medicine for a long long time was the ONLY way to treat cancer. We didn't see stark advances in regression until chemo and radiation. It isn't the only way, sure, but telling people Vitamin C in high doses is just as effective as chemo for their cancer is completely misleading and the evidence backs that up.

    Even the people that "cured" their cancers with holistic means usually don't bother to emphasize that they used western medicinal properties as their MAIN cure. Surgery in some cancers on its own shows high percentage cure rates. So they'll say they removed the tumor, and then did holistic medicine. Meaning the data is garbage. Holistic medicine could have helped.. but definitely didn't do anything for the bulk of curing cancer. Even the people trying to get others to cure cancer with alternative medicine aren't gambling their own lives on it. That, to me, speaks volumes, and I've already linked about the subject here before.



    Oh they certainly have. It's one of the great things hippies are doing right now--showing people fats aren't the bad guys, that real food is a good thing even if it's high calorie and high fat. The kind of fat matters. The no-fat and fat-free diet thing was HUGE in the 90s, and remnants of it remain heavily in place.

    But the root of my question is: Why did it become popular? Because advertising, marketing, and quick-fix schemes that don't fix anything.

    Detox diets are the new fad now.. And guess what is at the core of juicing? No Fats. Low protein. Just real fruits and vegetables and nothing else for 2 days and boom you're great. There's been mixed research and consensus on whether fasting helps or hurts the body, and in the end thoughtful fasting with a knowledge basis doesn't hurt anymore than eating regularly. What IS very similar between the fat-free devil's food cakes and $9 16oz bottles of juice is: they're fat free, they're advertised as 'kick starting' weight loss, and they range from 2 days to 14 days. It's still the same concept on either side of the coin. Quick fixes to stop feeling guilty for the sins of enjoying a cheeseburger.



    The French eat carbs with every single meal. How is bread NOT a french staple? You can't throw a dead cat without hitting a bread shop, I was there. They serve it to you no matter what kind of restaurant you walk into. The french have healthier recipes, no denying that, but carbs aren't the issue alone. Burning carbs isn't the only reason, nor should it be the sole reason, for walking. Walking is what people were made to do.. the less we do it, the more our body suffers. Too many studies have shown sedentary lifestyles have far more adverse effects than what kind of diet you eat. And they manifest quicker.

    It's why NASA is paying $170 a day + $1200 a week for bed-studies for astronauts.. paying people to lay in bed and not get up for 70 days and then rehabilitating them. People aren't made to sit still. So even with the vastly different variety of lifestyles and diets between the French and the Japanese, walking is a very clear common denominator.



    I'd guess you wrong. Their top 5 staples for traditional diet: Rice, green tea, vegetables, fruits, and fish. Three of those 5 are carbs. Vegetables and fruits are carbs as well.. the carbs aren't the evil, the KIND of carbs I will give you that but saying the Japanese eat less carbs than Americans I'll still say no to that. Rice with every meal = a fuck ton of carbs.
    didn't i post an article in here pretty much saying the same thing? I'm legit asking
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #316
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    didn't i post an article in here pretty much saying the same thing? I'm legit asking
    Oh dear I don't remember.. you might have started that side of the thread actually.
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  7. #317
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Oh dear I don't remember.. you might have started that side of the thread actually.
    oh me either, cuz i thought i had but i was like maybe only i thought about it but didn't.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #318
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    Bump!




    New York Attorney General Targets Supplements at Major Retailers

    The New York State attorney general’s office accused four major retailers on Monday of selling fraudulent and potentially dangerous herbal supplements and demanded that they remove the products from their shelves.

    The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.

    The investigation came as a welcome surprise to health experts who have long complained about the quality and safety of dietary supplements, which are exempt from the strict regulatory oversight applied to prescription drugs.

    The Food and Drug Administration has targeted individual supplements found to contain dangerous ingredients. But the announcement Monday was the first time that a law enforcement agency had threatened the biggest retail and drugstore chains with legal action for selling what it said were deliberately misleading herbal products.

    Among the attorney general’s findings was a popular store brand of ginseng pills at Walgreens, promoted for “physical endurance and vitality,” that contained only powdered garlic and rice. At Walmart, the authorities found that its ginkgo biloba, a Chinese plant promoted as a memory enhancer, contained little more than powdered radish, houseplants and wheat — despite a claim on the label that the product was wheat- and gluten-free.

    Three out of six herbal products at Target — ginkgo biloba, St. John’s wort and valerian root, a sleep aid — tested negative for the herbs on their labels. But they did contain powdered rice, beans, peas and wild carrots. And at GNC, the agency said, it found pills with unlisted ingredients used as fillers, like powdered legumes, the class of plants that includes peanuts and soybeans, a hazard for people with allergies.

    The attorney general sent the four retailers cease-and-desist letters on Monday and demanded that they explain what procedures they use to verify the ingredients in their supplements.


    Colour me unsurprised...
    Likes kyuuei, SD45T-2 liked this post

  9. #319
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    @93JC I just saw an article about this last night. Even when people are trying to go natural, they're being fed snake oils.

    I actually found it on accident reading about gummy multivitamins where it claims to give 100% of vitamin C or whatever, but actually the gummy itself is not broken down well enough to absorb that much and you only get a fraction of the vitamins infused in the gummy.

    There is a very very good reason someone would be just sued to shit if they created a beta blocker pill that lacked any beta blockers, but someone who creates st. john's wart supplements can put essentially pretty colored air in it and nothing will happen to them. I hope this guy does what he sets out to do and puts some real wrath of god fears into these greedy people pretending to be hippy healers.
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    Likes Ivy liked this post

  10. #320
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Pediatricians Fight Back Against Anti-Vaxxers, Ban Their Kids | ThinkProgress

    I think this might be a good step in the right direction. There is still a huge "We have a choice in this as parents" even though they're essentially choosing an option that puts their child in immediate harm and danger and saying they'd rather gamble with statistics.. and since it's more of a gray area than "I have a choice to shake my baby if she cries" it's not seen as neglect of child care needs.. and in the light of the fact that apparently anti-vaxxers will ignore any education being pushed their way using strawmen as blame.. Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind | Mother Jones

    .. I think this is a great step in the right direction. "Fine, do what you want, but this is THAT important that I MUST protect my patients.. and if I'm the only pediatrician within 30 miles, so be it. Get your kid vaccinated before you come back to me." I think most institutions should come up with this. Schools, doctor offices, benefit offices like WIC... Children need protection--often times, unfortunately, from their parents themselves.

    I predict a lot of REALLY bad scenarios.. children not getting care, and education, and stuff.. places requiring vaccines having pockets of healthy children, children who are medically exempt being stuck in the middle of the feud, and horrible cesspools of schools and daycares not requiring vaccines being overloaded with kids that are just breeding grounds for outbreaks.. and people not taking any of the responsibility when they open a daycare saying 'We don't care if you don't vaccinate!' and then 3-4 children get tragically ill at the establishment. Which, unfortunately, is probably what it will take before people really get their act together and end this.

    More importantly than educating the parents, I think, is educating the children themselves. If the children are educated, they can at least decide to get the vaccines on their own later.. or they can have more scientific mentalities that can let this nonsense die with the current generation.

    Of course, I'm super bias... I think that doctors should be allowed to save a child's life from a high-cure-rate disease regardless of parents. JW's don't believe in receiving blood products, which essentially is a death certificate for a kid requiring them to live. Hippies don't want their 90% cure rate cancer kid to receive proper treatment for it. To me, that's just as abusive to a child as denying a child life through neglect, abuse, and killing. You're killing your child and not even giving them a chance in life. Children to me ought to be protected at all costs, even if the parent is all frowny-faced about it. Because the truth is, as a society, we turn the switch and flip it quick when the issue ISN'T medically related.. when it's 'Oh, I just shook my baby until she stopped crying. Now she won't eat.' We arrest the woman.. and if she 'believes' it wasn't hurting her child, we say tough shit. Ignorance isn't an excuse in the court of law, it isn't an excuse in situations of abuse and neglect, and it certainly shouldn't be in the case of proven medicine and practice.

    I wish parents were the end-all-see-all of things, and that parents were the MOST important thing in a child's life. But the most important thing in a child's life is opportunity to live it. Parents frequently get in the way of that for many reasons.. and many are selfish, narrow minded, straight up inadequate, and without a real thought in what is best for the child.
    Last edited by kyuuei; 03-06-2015 at 09:18 AM.
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