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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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39. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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  1. #181
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I agree with kyuuei about the risks of waiting for natural remedies to kick in for conditions like high BP. I have that, and I am changing my lifestyle to treat it. I do use a salt substitute of potassium but it's still high. And I've lost weight but I'm doing it slowly on purpose and it will probably be a couple more years before I'm at a "normal" weight. If I just let my high BP hang out in that time I'm liable to stroke out, especially since I also have a heart arrhythmia that raises my risk of stroke. I'm certainly planning to step down the dosages as my lifestyle changes take effect but it's not an overnight thing.

    Also, the thing about deaths from prescription meds seems like a bait and switch to me- you (edit: not kyuuei, I think it was Tellenbach who posted that) start out talking about BP meds and say people should eschew them because of deaths from pharmaceuticals , but the evidence you cite about those deaths refers specifically to Xanax which is addictive if abused and can react with alcohol, leading to respiratory failure. Seems like apples to oranges, to me.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Semantics, and meaningless ultimately. Direct parallel argument: Type I diabetes. They need insulin (which they could naturally produce if they had the correct gene) to survive. Just because lactase is "cosmetic" does not make it wrong. At all.




    We don't know the exact reasons why the Japanese have longer lifespans. Biology is currently too complex for us to understand. Each culture has their own share of health issues that likely stem from different things.

    Your argument on this seems to be based on your opinion (yes, opinion) that diary is bad and should be eliminated. Demonizing the use of of lactase (something an individual could produce naturally) just because it might have minor health effects (of which you supported nothing substantiating towards), is totally asinine, and more bluntly; crazy.




    This is a vacuous broad stroke statement and can be dismissed as erroneous.
    The majority of the population not having a gene for digesting lactose is not at all the same as having diabetes, which is an illness. Also my statement was not "vacuous" as it does put extra stress on your liver and kidneys to process drugs you don't actually need, I am far from the only person who recognizes the dependency of Western people, especially Americans, on pharmaceuticals, just wanting to pop a pill for everything instead of weighing other issues, any responsible doctor also weighs other factors, Kyuuei in fact noted the way many people just want to pop a pill instead of altering their diet or taking other factors like exercise, sleep, etc into consideration.

    I am through talking to you, you are just disrespectful, seeing as that your argument is also based on your opinion, because in fact I posted multiple sources that cited studies about dairy, with physicians in fact recommending eliminating it in my second link.

  3. #183
    Innovation Reigns Supreme Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I do use a salt substitute of potassium but it's still high.
    This is off topic, but it's fun to tell. It's a shame that we can't use lithium chloride as a salt substitute. It tastes indiscernible from table salt (I know from personal experience, hehe ) except that it gets "hot" and heats up if it's dry when you eat it. Unlike potassium chloride which kindasortaalmost tastes like salt, then has a bitter aftertaste. I'm not sure if rubidium chloride or cesium chloride would taste better (your body could handle them fine, also need to add these to my taste test list, hehe. I know we have CsCl in lab), but they are sadly quite expensive. Edit: doesn't look like RbCl or CsCl would be viable, the former has neurobiological effects, the latter has cardiac (though it doesn't say at what dosage levels). Never would have guessed that one.

    The issue with LiCl is that in large amounts, it can make your heart stop. Which, obviously is deadly. It can also cause all kinds of dangerous/deadly neurological problems. They initially introduced it as a substitute in the 1940's, until the realized "Um, oops! This can make people sick/die, can't have that" and it was promptly pulled from the market and replaced with KCl (which has it's own problems if used too much, more so in women than men).
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  4. #184
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Can't potassium chloride do that, too? My salt substitute has a warning label. I use as little as possible.

  5. #185
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Another thing I use as a salt substitute sometimes is nutritional yeast. That was actually recommended to me as a substitute to the substitute, since last time I brought it up with my doctor he told me to be careful about using the potassium chloride product since I'm on BP meds. So I use some regular salt, some salt sub, and some nutritional yeast. Between it all I get the flavors I like and keep my sodium/potassium at the levels I need them.

  6. #186
    Innovation Reigns Supreme Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The majority of the population not having a gene for digesting lactose is not at all the same as having diabetes, which is an illness. Also my statement was not "vacuous" as it does put extra stress on your liver and kidneys to process drugs you don't actually need, I am far from the only person who recognizes the dependency of Western people, especially Americans, on pharmaceuticals, just wanting to pop a pill for everything instead of weighing other issues, any responsible doctor also weighs other factors, Kyuuei in fact noted the way many people just want to pop a pill instead of altering their diet or taking other factors like exercise, sleep, etc into consideration.
    Yes, your state is vacuous. It's a blanket generalization trying to demonize modern medicine for being "overused". You said nothing to offer valid support of it. If things are over used, we can measure it and are aware of this possibly occurring. Saying "taxing on your liver" is one of the most ridiculous and overused statements in "natural" health communities which ultimately means nothing. There is no "pill dependency", it's simply a matter of people at large preferring that method over something requiring further effort (and stand alone pills will not always solve the problem, there needs to be additional work such as diet/exersize/environment changes.

    And yes individuals not possessing a gene is the same thing regardless of the outcome. You simply don't want it to be. Can you take something to improve quality of life? Then do so. It will cause the individual NO HARM, at ALL to take it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I am through talking to you, you are just disrespectful, seeing as that your argument is also based on your opinion, because in fact I posted multiple sources that cited studies about dairy, with physicians in fact recommending eliminating it in my second link.
    Well, I don't give a shit. As I said to small.wonder, if I see something wrong in this realm and tauting falsehoods, I am going to speak up about it and I am not going to back down (unless the individual is truly unreasonable and can not be reached). You can, but I won't. My argument is not based of opinion. Your sources are minimally value/weight at best (I already pointed that out). There needs to be a much larger group consensus about it in order for it to be taken seriously. If it comes to pass, the FDA or some other major announcement will go through the medical community that will gain traction fast. This exact thing has happened with table salt a few times over the past few decades.
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  7. #187
    Innovation Reigns Supreme Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Can't potassium chloride do that, too? My salt substitute has a warning label. I use as little as possible.

    Another thing I use as a salt substitute sometimes is nutritional yeast. That was actually recommended to me as a substitute to the substitute, since last time I brought it up with my doctor he told me to be careful about using the potassium chloride product since I'm on BP meds. So I use some regular salt, some salt sub, and some nutritional yeast. Between it all I get the flavors I like and keep my sodium/potassium at the levels I need them.
    Yes it can. I don't know the exact levels for KCl so I would ask a doctor or nurse about what is safe amounts. Generally speaking though you don't want to be dumping spoonfulls onto a dish, but then that would taste terrible.

    Yeah! I had a former roomate who used nutritional yeast as a salt subsistute (mostly because she just liked it). I tried it and gagged; it was nasty! Some like it though.
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  8. #188
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    There's only certain stuff I like the nutritional yeast on. Popcorn is one.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Yes, your state is vacuous. It's a blanket generalization trying to demonize modern medicine for being "overused". You said nothing to offer valid support of it. If things are over used, we can measure it and are aware of this possibly occurring. Saying "taxing on your liver" is one of the most ridiculous and overused statements in "natural" health communities which ultimately means nothing. There is no "pill dependency", it's simply a matter of people at large preferring that method over something requiring further effort (and stand alone pills will not always solve the problem, there needs to be additional work such as diet/exersize/environment changes.

    And yes individuals not possessing a gene is the same thing regardless of the outcome. You simply don't want it to be. Can you take something to improve quality of life? Then do so. It will cause the individual NO HARM, at ALL to take it.




    Well, I don't give a shit. As I said to small.wonder, if I see something wrong in this realm and tauting falsehoods, I am going to speak up about it and I am not going to back down (unless the individual is truly unreasonable and can not be reached). You can, but I won't. My argument is not based of opinion. Your sources are minimally value/weight at best (I already pointed that out). There needs to be a much larger group consensus about it in order for it to be taken seriously. If it comes to pass, the FDA or some other major announcement will go through the medical community that will gain traction fast. This exact thing has happened with table salt a few times over the past few decades.
    Yeah you are definitely Je. Fe to be exact. You don't even acknowledge how much opinion is affecting your judgment here. The FDA isn't the be all and end all. Note how "large group consensus" is made in other countries, but still the U.S. FDA may or may not agree. There are multiple factors at play here, and no my statement is not vacuous, and I am not demonizing all Western medicine, just over abuse of pharmaceuticals. Who is generalizing now, son.

  10. #190
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Did you read through the abstract? They used 1 gram/day. One gram isn't going to do anything. You need 10 plus grams. You'll find that many if not most Vitamin C studies to be seriously flawed in this respect; the doses used are far lower than anything that Linus Pauling and others used.
    Colds last like.. 2 days? 3 days? Why the hell would you even bother? I mean, sure, do whatever you can for a couple days.. I'm not taking 100x the amount my body needs of something because someone on the internet swears it works. Sorry, bro, NOTHING kills the cold virus except your own immune system, and for me that shit works whether I take cold meds or vitamin C. I try just try to make myself feel better and eliminate possible other causes before I accept having a cold truly. Not all the vitamin C in the world will kill your cold bug, so it seems crazy to me to take SO much of a substance that isn't really going to help your symptoms or actually help a cold duration. 1 1/2 days? Versus 2? Not worth it. I could use saline and get more relief. It's a preference thing only so far.

    I guess you wouldn't be interested in the large 1985 British Medical Research Council study (17,000 patients) that shows no effect on death rates from using hypertension medications.
    I'll bet you wouldn't be surprised to hear me say there's been a ton of research, new drugs, and such that have come out since that 1985 study. A lot's happened in 30 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    (which is a serious and dangerous worldwide health threat that is a question of when, not if. It trumps the issues in this thread topic by thousands of orders of magnitude).
    Such a good point. I see so much people selling the antibacterial angle from both ends of the spectrum.. only, luckily, hippies are 'natural' and misguided on what antibacterial stuff tends to do on their end, so they actually don't do a ton of harm in this category.

    It's incredibly dishonest. This is not the first individual I have encountered with this sort of value towards holistic medicine. Many seem to think credentials aren't that important, or aren't at all.
    This is entirely my point. It isn't exactly that I want to seem like a "I HEART DOCTORZ GAIZ" person but people just don't have an appreciation for that. If I told someone, "Hey, I've never done this surgery before, but I swear I watched a ton of videos on it and read on the internet and books and science. So.. sign here?" they'd tell me to fuck off. When it's something like that, suddenly credentials matter. Before that, it's just snobby posh people.

    Good to hear. I'm just disappointed that most of the drive to "improve" vaccines is cosmetic and done to satisfy people who refuse them; it's done for PR reasons mostly.
    Mostly because the one that make the most noise make it for all the wrong reasons. instead of well established issues being discussed, it's some dog-breath celebrity girl crying about, like, science is all cold and stuff. "My kid has autism and I don't understand why.. but these people said it MIGHT be to blame, and I really want something to blame so I know I didn't do bad things as a parent."

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    That bothers me, too. However, has it occurred to you that this occurs because those with alternative views can never back their statements with decent evidence or research (and when they do, it tends to be misinterpreted or shady)?
    I told a girl on my facebook about this. I told her, "Hey, did you know this news source you're crediting information from is misleading? They're selling stuff left and right on the site that conveniently have stuff supporting the stuff they're selling, tons of ad tracker cookies on the site which is nearly comparable to porn sites, and literally say, "While we cannot draw any conclusions from this..." because They legally can't misrepresent someone's research? They can sake passive aggressive-esque twisty media things all they want after that charming disclaimer. Why don't you ever question why the skirt around those issues like lindmines?" ... Fell entirely on deaf ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The majority of the population not having a gene for digesting lactose is not at all the same as having diabetes, which is an illness. .... Kyuuei in fact noted the way many people just want to pop a pill instead of altering their diet or taking other factors like exercise, sleep, etc into consideration.
    If you believe at all in evolution it would make a lot of sense that some cultures are more suited to eat certain foods than others. It's a topic I've wanted to study in the future sometime, but until then, yes diabetes is an illness.. just like developing an allergy or skin condition is. But your body having lactase, mantaining it, and using it truly is a matter of philosophical opinion. Like I've stated on the site before, I tried an all natural, raw food diet.. I carefully researched food combinations, meal plans for adequate calories, etc. etc. And I got really ill. Very ill. I gained weight, held water, felt like garbage, and nothing I did was far outside the parameters of what raw foodies suggest. I followed their teachings. My body just was not made for that. Also, I found out I have an oral allergy to all raw fruit. AN ALLERGY TO FRUIT, can you imagine? What a nonsense allergy. Does that mean I should swear off all fruit and all their delicious health benefits just because I get slightly uncomfortable? Or, can I take an allergy pill and get all those benefits? Or just cook the food, and saw raw foodies are full of it and some people need to cook their food? That's a philosophy thing. They aren't wrong for being raw--but it WAS wrong for me.

    Similarly, just judging people's choice to use milk in their health and diet (for whatever reasons) is opinionated overall. It's a philosophical question more than a science-based one. There's studies abound that are fighting all the time.. whether x is good, or bad, or neutral, or good and bad.. Milk is one of those topics. Generally speaking, if you aren't intolerant, it can help your health, and if you are, there's plenty of alternatives for you. I don't see why diary is overly demonized when people abuse it and don't just eat the proper portions of it.. most things when over used are bad for you.

    The Japanese constantly deal with issues like constipation from high rice diets, which is just as uncomfortable as lactose intolerance episodes. Their diet is great, and healthy, but it's far from perfect. I study their diet and trends a lot more than the average American would, I've always had an interest in the country, and I believe Americans would benefit greatly from the principles. But leaping to the conclusion that low dairy makes for a better diet is negating the entirety of the benefits of their diet which is regardless of dairy existing in it or not.
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