Dopamine and MBTI

[theadoor]

I watched this speech
Michael Shermer: The pattern behind self-deception | Video on TED.com

and of course tried to connect it with typology theory.

So the question is would intuitives naturally produce more dopamine in their brain than sensors and what about right brain dominant people over left brain doms? And if so, are intuitives and the right brain dominants more likely to have personality disorders like paranoia and schizophrenia?

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Hi Thea - this is an interesting question I have discussed with psychologists in the past - the types of mental illness appear to have been correlated to type by a number of researchers but I think the jury is still out. It does make a kind of sense though that the abstraction process of the Ns could be related to these problems.

A discussion I was involved in a few years ago posited that on a continuum, introspection and Judging would possibly throw up Autism spectrum disorders while on the extreme P side it would possibly be Schizophrenia then on the extraversion side, perhaps bipolar disorder on the P side and OCD on the extreme J side. This is quite a simplistic model to start with but there is further information on likely psychiatric disorders associated with type.

What interests me more is that ADD and ADHD, when we peel off the layers that are caused by poor nutrition and too many chemical additives, are likely to prove to be NPs and SPs being taught in a manner largely suited to the greater proportion of students - ISTJ. :rolli:

 

[theadoor]

Yes, I actually agree with autism I guess. Many INTJs on INTJ forum and here I think too have reported having an Asperger syndrome. And yes, i think the others you posted according to the theory seems logical too, unfortunately I don't have any good examples of it.
I think ADD and ADHD is more of an ExxP thing, in general, but this again is just my empirical/inductive idea and I have no reliable, scientific basis on it.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Yes, I actually agree with autism I guess. Many INTJs on INTJ forum and here I think too have reported having an Asperger syndrome. And yes, i think the others you posted according to the theory seems logical too, unfortunately I don't have any good examples of it.
I think ADD and ADHD is more of an ExxP thing, in general, but this again is just my empirical/inductive idea and I have no reliable, scientific basis on it.

I once thought it was an ExxP thing too until the head of Psych. at one of the Universities here decided to tell parents living with ADD/ADHD in a group forum that Daydreamers ought also be medicated because they too were Attention Deficit!

I was too late to attend the forum but I was fuming the rest of my journey home and subsequently emailed him. He agreed to see me and when I told him I felt that we were medicating our future genius into mediocrity and then I asked why he thought that daydreamers should be medicated as well.

His answer was that they were too disorganised!!

This coming from a man in whose office every surface was covered with very precariously perched piles of papers - I was just gobsmacked

 

[Katsuni]

Well yeu've stated NP's and ExxP's for ADD / ADHD...

I was diagnosed with ADHD quite awhile ago, when like 7 or something? I forget the exact year. Calendars and I aren't on speaking terms right now XD

But yeah, ENTP here, so it's possible. I'm not sure if it's directly related though, but it may be.

I would suggest the P portion, at the very least, is likely to be relevant. The J variant, is more likely to manifest as OCD, I would think. But, as with thea's comment, this is completely personal opinion unsubstantiated with a total lack of scientific data to prove such. I'd be curious to see if any studies had been done, however =3

 

[miss fortune]

I'm actually pretty severely right brained according to the tests on that

and I'm a sensor....

in the poll we had here attached to that test it correlated most heavily that ExxPs almost all fell into the right brained category, regardless of S or N and IxxJs almost all fell into the left brained category regardless of S or N

 

[Southern Kross]

I watched this speech
Michael Shermer: The pattern behind self-deception | Video on TED.com

and of course tried to connect it with typology theory.

So the question is would intuitives naturally produce more dopamine in their brain than sensors and what about right brain dominant people over left brain doms? And if so, are intuitives and the right brain dominants more likely to have personality disorders like paranoia and schizophrenia?

OMG I just watched this yesterday!

*has nerdy subscription to TED on Youtube*

I wondered the same thing about Ns when it came to the 'patternicity' stuff. But then I'm strongly N and such a sceptic but so is my ISFJ Mum.

I don't know...

 

[wildcat]

Hi Thea - this is an interesting question I have discussed with psychologists in the past - the types of mental illness appear to have been correlated to type by a number of researchers but I think the jury is still out. It does make a kind of sense though that the abstraction process of the Ns could be related to these problems.

A discussion I was involved in a few years ago posited that on a continuum, introspection and Judging would possibly throw up Autism spectrum disorders while on the extreme P side it would possibly be Schizophrenia then on the extraversion side, perhaps bipolar disorder on the P side and OCD on the extreme J side. This is quite a simplistic model to start with but there is further information on likely psychiatric disorders associated with type.

What interests me more is that ADD and ADHD, when we peel off the layers that are caused by poor nutrition and too many chemical additives, are likely to prove to be NPs and SPs being taught in a manner largely suited to the greater proportion of students - ISTJ. :rolli:

Who needs money?
Those who do not have it.

Who is compulsive about money?
Those who have it too little or too much.
Apropos who is compulsive about order?

The catalyst of a dichotomy is about the motive.

 

[wildcat]

I'm actually pretty severely right brained according to the tests on that

and I'm a sensor....

in the poll we had here attached to that test it correlated most heavily that ExxPs almost all fell into the right brained category, regardless of S or N and IxxJs almost all fell into the left brained category regardless of S or N

Quite right.
I say the nail on the head.

 

[Katsuni]

I'm actually pretty severely right brained according to the tests on that

and I'm a sensor....

in the poll we had here attached to that test it correlated most heavily that ExxPs almost all fell into the right brained category, regardless of S or N and IxxJs almost all fell into the left brained category regardless of S or N

This's interesting, since I'm an EP that's LEFT brained... though from my father I did inherit a degree of ambidexterity, so I do have significant right brain capacity for certain tasks, but it's not the dominant side in most cases.

 

[Totenkindly]

So the question is would intuitives naturally produce more dopamine in their brain than sensors and what about right brain dominant people over left brain doms?

Well, for weirdness, I'm typically full/right-brained and Wellbutrin was the medication I successfully used to curb my depression (it's an inhibitor of dopamine and norepinephrine intake).

What interests me more is that ADD and ADHD, when we peel off the layers that are caused by poor nutrition and too many chemical additives, are likely to prove to be NPs and SPs being taught in a manner largely suited to the greater proportion of students - ISTJ.

I agree with the basic premise, I think the basic misdiagonses that have occured have fallen into this category. However, it's not fully that. My ESFP kid had trouble in any environment, regardless of structure level, and he felt relieved when he'd take his meds; it was like part of his brain finally turned on and he could focus on and accomplish things. Before, he was like a dune buggy splashing around in circles aimlessly, throwing mud everywhere, and now he could drive toward a goal he wanted to achieve.

I've actually had people off the cuff drop the ADD comment in regard to me, just because I don't organize easily IRL. I hate that stuff. Just because someone organizes spatially or has a mind that can fire in many directions at once doesn't mean there's something wrong with it or that focus cannot be applied when one desires. Linear thinking tries too hard to categorize everything.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

*has nerdy subscription to TED on Youtube*

Me too

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I'm actually pretty severely right brained according to the tests on that

and I'm a sensor....

in the poll we had here attached to that test it correlated most heavily that ExxPs almost all fell into the right brained category, regardless of S or N and IxxJs almost all fell into the left brained category regardless of S or N

This is interesting because I am considered in testing to have left brain/right brain balance yet I write and draw with my right hand and could not turn a door knob the proper way with my left hand until I was 24 .

I am in all likelihood XNTP tho most testing has shown a slight preference for I and an extreme iNtuitive???

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

Well, for weirdness, I'm typically full/right-brained and Wellbutrin was the medication I successfully used to curb my depression (it's an inhibitor of dopamine and norepinephrine intake).



I agree with the basic premise, I think the basic misdiagonses that have occured have fallen into this category. However, it's not fully that. My ESFP kid had trouble in any environment, regardless of structure level, and he felt relieved when he'd take his meds; it was like part of his brain finally turned on and he could focus on and accomplish things. Before, he was like a dune buggy splashing around in circles aimlessly, throwing mud everywhere, and now he could drive toward a goal he wanted to achieve.

I've actually had people off the cuff drop the ADD comment in regard to me, just because I don't organize easily IRL. I hate that stuff. Just because someone organizes spatially or has a mind that can fire in many directions at once doesn't mean there's something wrong with it or that focus cannot be applied when one desires. Linear thinking tries too hard to categorize everything.

I agree with you 100% on your last statement!!

So you have experienced both sides of the coin then - I think abstraction is frequently misdiagnosed as ADD when society needs that abstraction and leaps of association to come up with hypotheses and solutions.

I know that the scientists among us believe that something doesn't exist until it is proven but without the insane (as they were seen in their time) and as yet unproven theories of their times, the world's genius throughout history would not have brought us so far.

As an aside - While I understand the need by most for "proofs" I think all proofs require a waiver clause that says that this has been proven based on what we know at this time.

Reading Feynman's lectures in "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out", Feynman saw his cousin struggling with a calculus problem and asked if he wanted to know a quick way to solve the problem. His cousin told him that he had to do it via the steps shown him in the book. Feynman then said he experienced something of an epiphany realising that those who need to do the step-by-step process in solving a problem do so for a reason.

It is so they can correctly solve the problem regardless of whether they understand what they are trying to achieve or not!

 

[miss fortune]

yeah... I'm right handed and left footed... which can be confusing

and if your Ne beats your Ti you could be an E (lol... that rhymes! )

as far as the idea of ADD with Ne... try being an ESxP child... they positively chase you down the hallway with ritalin because you're too EVERYTHING for their tastes :steam: (ok... they chased me down the hallway because I liked to wander off during class, but that's a different matter!)

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

yeah... I'm right handed and left footed... which can be confusing

and if your Ne beats your Ti you could be an E (lol... that rhymes! )

as far as the idea of ADD with Ne... try being an ESxP child... they positively chase you down the hallway with ritalin because you're too EVERYTHING for their tastes :steam: (ok... they chased me down the hallway because I liked to wander off during class, but that's a different matter!)

Cool - I like the Maverick in the class!!

 

[theadoor]

Me too

I got TED on my bookmarks table at my browser! *checkmates*

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I got TED on my bookmarks table at my browser! *checkmates*

Have you seen and/or subscribed to Charter for Compassion? - link on the TED website. Fellow TEDders unite!

 

[wildcat]

yeah... I'm right handed and left footed... which can be confusing

and if your Ne beats your Ti you could be an E (lol... that rhymes! )

as far as the idea of ADD with Ne... try being an ESxP child... they positively chase you down the hallway with ritalin because you're too EVERYTHING for their tastes :steam: (ok... they chased me down the hallway because I liked to wander off during class, but that's a different matter!)

I also used to wonder off during class.
They never found me in the hallway. I had left the building.

The school dinner cost thirty cents.
Orchestra sandwich cost 19 cents in a nearby restaurant.
It was better.

 

[compulsiverambler]

A discussion I was involved in a few years ago posited that on a continuum, introspection and Judging would possibly throw up Autism spectrum disorders while on the extreme P side it would possibly be Schizophrenia then on the extraversion side, perhaps bipolar disorder on the P side and OCD on the extreme J side. This is quite a simplistic model to start with but there is further information on likely psychiatric disorders associated with type.

What interests me more is that ADD and ADHD, when we peel off the layers that are caused by poor nutrition and too many chemical additives, are likely to prove to be NPs and SPs being taught in a manner largely suited to the greater proportion of students - ISTJ. :rolli:

And how does your theory accommodate the fact that many OCD patients also have AD/HD?

OCD often cormorbid with ADHD | Clinical Psychiatry News | Find Articles at BNET

Link between OCD, ADHD, and hoarding