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Vista users: Feel like you were used for beta testing?

Feel like you were used for Beta testing?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 21.9%
  • No

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • Total voters
    32

Xander

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Athenian... you should have said...

Vista is fine. Saying it's bloated is like complaining that you don't get 35mpg with your foot welded to the mat in a car. Just turn off select features and it runs fine.

Vista IS marginally slower than XP but then again how much more does it do? Try fixing a PC with a boot problem in XP and suddenly you're plunged into DOS... not nice. Vista, put in the disk and run the boot repair. Works two out of three times for me and that's saying something.

As for Windows 7, it IS Vista. Sure it's an upgrade but there again you don't seriously expect MS to give it away when it's such an upgrade it alters half the core systems?

Another point, I wonder how many on this thread who are trying to weigh up XP and Vista are still stuck in 32bit land. Personally I had 64bit XP, 64bit Vista and I'm now on 64bit Windows 7 but it seems like most people still think that 64bit is for professionals or people with powerful computers... it's just daft.

XP<Vista<Win7. It's called progress. If you're still using XP then how old are your security measures? New antivirus? That's nice, you've still got back doors which people have had a looong time to discover.

Oh and Win7 vs XP. Win7 is faster, more secure, prettier, does DX10 and DX11 soon I think... the only thing you lose is needing a computer made this century and needing to get rid of your 32bit security blanket.

Edit - I should point out that I'm no fan of MS. I've had problems with every OS they've ever made. But then again I've tried Linux *shudders* and Macs just seem too proprietary for my tinkering tastes. I am currently running a desktop with Win7 and a laptop with Vista. Thus far the Vista laptop has been the most reliable runner of any computer I've used, bar none.
 

vince

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Basically, people who stuck to XP and resisted Vista for the last couple of years are the winners.

you mean whiners ?

I work as network administrator. We have about 70 PCs of which 40 are running Vista (the other 30 are XPs). The only problems we ever had were some initial printer driver & indexing issues but after SP1 everything ran smooth.
The whole Vista-bashing was just some sort of mass psychosis or negative hype if you will. The annoying consequence of that is that after 2 years of Vista the main vendors starting shipping XP on their machines again instead of Vista, because they got sick of all the whining.
Since Windows 2000 there hasn't been a bad Windows. End of story.
 

Fluffywolf

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Had vista since day one.

Never a crash, never a problem in performance, never an issue with compatibility.

I never had that much trouble with any windows. But windows 95 I used to reinstall every month, 98 every two months, Windows ME was hell and, 2k was annoying, XP was decent but occasionally had some run ins and needed some messing about in registery and such to keep running problemlessly.

Vista, not a smudge. Runs perfectly for me.

I got Vista 64 bit on a Toshiba Qosmio X300 laptop upgraded to 8gb ddr though. I can imagine that running vista on an older PC might give problems. But then it's not Vista that is the issue, but your PC.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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Athenian, you are awesome.

On a second note, you neglected to mention windows 2000. It was the first windows I loved, and I've seen them all from 2.0.
 

Athenian200

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Athenian... you should have said...

Vista is fine. Saying it's bloated is like complaining that you don't get 35mpg with your foot welded to the mat in a car. Just turn off select features and it runs fine.

Vista IS marginally slower than XP but then again how much more does it do? Try fixing a PC with a boot problem in XP and suddenly you're plunged into DOS... not nice. Vista, put in the disk and run the boot repair. Works two out of three times for me and that's saying something.

I don't particularly care about security or all the protection features they added, honestly. I care about running browsers and games. And that thing about "select features" isn't true. I disabled almost all the features, and it STILL used up way too much memory (more than half on boot), applications took 10 seconds to load. The only way I could make it work well was to go into the registry and disable almost all services, replace explorer.exe with a lighter shell, and run one application at a time. This got it down to 40% of system memory. This was on a 4GB system with a Core 2 processor, running the 32-bit version of Vista.

And it's not DOS, not technically. It looks similar, but it's still a 32-bit environment. The downside is that it's harder to access the recovery console if you need to do something the automatic boot repair can't do.

As for Windows 7, it IS Vista. Sure it's an upgrade but there again you don't seriously expect MS to give it away when it's such an upgrade it alters half the core systems?

I've seen Service Packs for XP alter that much of the core system. As well as Windows 98.

XP<Vista<Win7. It's called progress. If you're still using XP then how old are your security measures? New antivirus? That's nice, you've still got back doors which people have had a looong time to discover.

Don't change the issue. It's not about progress, it's about Vista being a sub-par operating system that was released prematurely, and Windows 7 being what Vista should have been in the first place. It was released just TWO years ago, and they're already replacing it and demanding payment for the upgrade. If you take into account the fact that most people wait for SP1 before upgrading, then it was really only considered a viable upgrade last year!

So, someone who bought Vista in 2008, hoping they'd eventually patch it up and release service packs... pretty much got screwed because now they've got to buy Windows 7 to have their issues addressed. And the OS is only a year old for them.

Now, how long has Microsoft released Service Packs for Operating Systems before releasing a new one in the past? Usually at least 3 or 4 years.

Progress is good, but Windows Vista wasn't progress. It was a regression that they've just now reversed.

Granted, it's possible my perspective is biased because I only used 32-bit Vista, and am using 64-bit Windows 7 (though I had a 64-bit processor all along). Although since I'm still running mostly 32-bit applications (thanks to no one making 64-bit software), I'd be surprised if switching to the 64-bit OS had resulted in a performance boost. I also used 32-bit XP on another Core 2 system, and I can tell you it definitely worked better than 32-bit Vista did. It might also have something to do with my Dad preloading it with a lot of stuff I didn't need or want, even though I disabled or removed most of it.
Oh and Win7 vs XP. Win7 is faster, more secure, prettier, does DX10 and DX11 soon I think... the only thing you lose is needing a computer made this century and needing to get rid of your 32bit security blanket.

I agree with that. Windows 7 is WAY better than XP. I can't imagine why anyone would stick with XP now. I do wish I had stuck with it rather than suffering with Vista for the past two years, trying my best to disable the new functionality right and left to make it even halfway as good as XP.
Edit - I should point out that I'm no fan of MS. I've had problems with every OS they've ever made. But then again I've tried Linux *shudders* and Macs just seem too proprietary for my tinkering tastes. I am currently running a desktop with Win7 and a laptop with Vista. Thus far the Vista laptop has been the most reliable runner of any computer I've used, bar none.

Well, I haven't used Vista on a laptop. Come to think of it, it does seem like it would be a much better OS for laptops. Maybe it was a desktop issue.
 

Xander

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I don't particularly care about security or all the protection features they added, honestly. I care about running browsers and games. And that thing about "select features" isn't true. I disabled almost all the features, and it STILL used up way too much memory (more than half on boot), applications took 10 seconds to load. The only way I could make it work well was to go into the registry and disable almost all services, replace explorer.exe with a lighter shell, and run one application at a time. This got it down to 40% of system memory. This was on a 4GB system with a Core 2 processor, running the 32-bit version of Vista.
Something is wrong. Not just unoptimised but actually wrong. Sound like one hell of a memory leak.

To put it in context, mine used to run with less that 2Gb of memory and the only reason I took it off was that Battlefield didn't play nicely with it and Win7 has exactly the same problem.
And it's not DOS, not technically. It looks similar, but it's still a 32-bit environment. The downside is that it's harder to access the recovery console if you need to do something the automatic boot repair can't do.
run c://executepedant.exe

:tongue10:
I've seen Service Packs for XP alter that much of the core system. As well as Windows 98.
Find one that adds DX10.

Find one that adds support for SSDs and not just trim.

Sure they alter the core but this would be an overhaul and a half!
Don't change the issue. It's not about progress, it's about Vista being a sub-par operating system that was released prematurely, and Windows 7 being what Vista should have been in the first place. It was released just TWO years ago, and they're already replacing it and demanding payment for the upgrade. If you take into account the fact that most people wait for SP1 before upgrading, then it was really only considered a viable upgrade last year!
Windows 98 vs 98SE. Windows ME for god's sake!! Vista isn't unusual and nor is it half as bad as people make out.

In fact if people had stopped whining right from the start then the real tech support would have worked. The problem with Vista wasn't anything to do with the tech it was the media trying to make a quick killing. If they'd STFU then people would have been looking for a solution instead of a scapegoat.
So, someone who bought Vista in 2008, hoping they'd eventually patch it up and release service packs... pretty much got screwed because now they've got to buy Windows 7 to have their issues addressed. And the OS is only a year old for them.
Vista has been fine since service pack 1.... similarly to XP in fact. There's no good reason it shouldn't work perfectly fine now.
Now, how long has Microsoft released Service Packs for Operating Systems before releasing a new one in the past? Usually at least 3 or 4 years.
Errm huh? I hadn't heard that Vista was up for the chop imminently.

Oh and if you'd bought XP64 then you'd still get updates well into the future thanks to it being server 2003 under disguise!
Progress is good, but Windows Vista wasn't progress. It was a regression that they've just now reversed.
Ah well that's where you're most wrong, Windows 7 is like Vista version 2. It keeps a whole slew of the features, just made lighter and less "new".

Basically Vista was all new, all shiny. People screamed they couldn't find their arse with both hands and a flshlight so they made Windows 7. It keeps the shine... well most of it but it also is easier to adapt to.
Granted, it's possible my perspective is biased because I only used 32-bit Vista, and am using 64-bit Windows 7 (though I had a 64-bit processor all along). Although since I'm still running mostly 32-bit applications (thanks to no one making 64-bit software), I'd be surprised if switching to the 64-bit OS had resulted in a performance boost. I also used 32-bit XP on another Core 2 system, and I can tell you it definitely worked better than 32-bit Vista did. It might also have something to do with my Dad preloading it with a lot of stuff I didn't need or want, even though I disabled or removed most of it.
Norton?

Anyway 32bit is purely provided for dinosaurs and the paranoid. Seriously. But if you want to get technical, your processor isn't 64 bit. It's emulated 64 bit, so no you've not got proper 64 bit yet.
I agree with that. Windows 7 is WAY better than XP. I can't imagine why anyone would stick with XP now. I do wish I had stuck with it rather than suffering with Vista for the past two years, trying my best to disable the new functionality right and left to make it even halfway as good as XP.
Errm some people are still sticking with XP. Some just put their hands over their eyes and declare it's not happening cause they can't see it.

Reminds me of when I suggested diskeeper to a friend only to be told that he didn't want any fancy defragging software as he'd just got all his files where he wanted them.

Just because you cans witch one on does not make you good enough to use one responsibly :newwink:
Well, I haven't used Vista on a laptop. Come to think of it, it does seem like it would be a much better OS for laptops. Maybe it was a desktop issue.
Nah... it's probably a hardware issue or a registry error (like having entries marked as Symantec or something). Basically Vista was good for integration, that's good for all multi media machines... especially laptops where you just don't have the room to have everything as separates like some Technics HiFi.

Seriously though, if you have to continue using Vista, check the memory and the motherboard. Reinstall. Then make friends with tweakguides.
 

Athenian200

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Something is wrong. Not just unoptimised but actually wrong. Sound like one hell of a memory leak.

To put it in context, mine used to run with less that 2Gb of memory and the only reason I took it off was that Battlefield didn't play nicely with it and Win7 has exactly the same problem.

Yeah, I think maybe it has something to do with how it was set up. I didn't install it.

run c://executepedant.exe

:tongue10:

:doh: Okay, fine, you got me. I've never tried to recover from boot errors on Vista before. If I had, I probably would have figured that out.
Find one that adds DX10.

Find one that adds support for SSDs and not just trim.

Sure they alter the core but this would be an overhaul and a half!

Windows 98 vs 98SE. Windows ME for god's sake!! Vista isn't unusual and nor is it half as bad as people make out.

In fact if people had stopped whining right from the start then the real tech support would have worked. The problem with Vista wasn't anything to do with the tech it was the media trying to make a quick killing. If they'd STFU then people would have been looking for a solution instead of a scapegoat.

Vista has been fine since service pack 1.... similarly to XP in fact. There's no good reason it shouldn't work perfectly fine now.

Errm huh? I hadn't heard that Vista was up for the chop imminently.

Oh and if you'd bought XP64 then you'd still get updates well into the future thanks to it being server 2003 under disguise!

Ah well that's where you're most wrong, Windows 7 is like Vista version 2. It keeps a whole slew of the features, just made lighter and less "new".

Basically Vista was all new, all shiny. People screamed they couldn't find their arse with both hands and a flshlight so they made Windows 7. It keeps the shine... well most of it but it also is easier to adapt to.

Oh, I see. Come to think of it, my upgrade from Windows 98 to Windows 98SE wasn't an official patch, but it worked just as well as the real thing...

Well, the thing is, Vista is going to be cut rather shortly. Windows 7 has lots of tweaks and features that make it too attractive of an upgrade from Vista. It isn't like most versions where they just add useless multimedia features that increase the hardware requirements, this time they made it faster and better.

I'm realizing just how much I miss Windows 7 now that I'm over here at someone else's place trying to use XP again. :( I've only had it for a few weeks and I'm already spoiled to the new interface, shortcut keys, and powershell.

Norton?

Anyway 32bit is purely provided for dinosaurs and the paranoid. Seriously. But if you want to get technical, your processor isn't 64 bit. It's emulated 64 bit, so no you've not got proper 64 bit yet.

So, the Core 2 Duo isn't actually a 64-bit processor, but emulated 64-bit? Hmm... I didn't know that.

Yeah, he loaded Norton, Webroot, and something called Trend Micro. I removed them all because they were eating 20% of my memory, slowing down my games, and they weren't detecting any viruses. The few viruses I got, it didn't detect and I had to find out about them from Microsoft or computer news sites. Those third-party antiviruses aren't all they're cracked up to be. :dry:

Errm some people are still sticking with XP. Some just put their hands over their eyes and declare it's not happening cause they can't see it.

Reminds me of when I suggested diskeeper to a friend only to be told that he didn't want any fancy defragging software as he'd just got all his files where he wanted them.

Just because you cans witch one on does not make you good enough to use one responsibly :newwink:

:rofl1: Indeed. Disk Fragmentation has nothing to do with file organization.

Nah... it's probably a hardware issue or a registry error (like having entries marked as Symantec or something). Basically Vista was good for integration, that's good for all multi media machines... especially laptops where you just don't have the room to have everything as separates like some Technics HiFi.

Seriously though, if you have to continue using Vista, check the memory and the motherboard. Reinstall. Then make friends with tweakguides.

Yeah. I probably could have put more work into it. But I don't really have to use Vista anymore since I got Windows 7. I honestly think part of the reason I hated it was because my Dad installed it, and I usually prefer to find fault with the things he does rather than find ways to make them work. When I installed my own copy of Windows on there, it worked better... perhaps because I put more effort into optimizing it and figuring out what it could do initially.
 

Timeless

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This thread title made me laugh!

Ehem...



APPLE 4 LYFE DAWG!

apple.jpg


Snow Leopard in da' house bizzatch!
 

Xander

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Yeah, I think maybe it has something to do with how it was set up. I didn't install it.
Mistake #1
Yeah, he loaded Norton, Webroot, and something called Trend Micro. I removed them all because they were eating 20% of my memory, slowing down my games, and they weren't detecting any viruses. The few viruses I got, it didn't detect and I had to find out about them from Microsoft or computer news sites. Those third-party antiviruses aren't all they're cracked up to be. :dry:
Mistake #2

Never install more than one antivirus unless you run one for deep scans once in a while and disable the other while it does it. Otherwise they fight.

Never let someone else install stuff on your PC. HUGE mistake. Last time I did that I ended up with one of those stupid search bars on my browser.

That reminds me, I do so hope you're using chrome or firefox x64 by now...

Oh and you want fast and optimised... SSD FTW!!
 

Athenian200

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Mistake #1

I wasn't given a choice. The guy insisted, and literally said, "I'm f**king this monkey, don't peek," if I tried to make any comments at all about what he was doing.

If I'd had my way, Vista wouldn't have even been on that computer until SP1 came out. And it would have been the 64-bit version. I can run my old apps in a Virtual Machine, I learned how to do that on Linux when I wanted Windows compatibility.

Come to think of it, I think part of the reason memory was being wasted was because I had exactly 4GB, and a video card with a lot of ram (600MB+ or something ridiculous)... meaning 32-bit addressing was probably throwing away some of my memory. Maybe half, though it claimed to recognize all of it. Argh, this reminds me of when DOS claimed to recognize all my Extended memory upon typing MEM, but it was a struggle to get it to run anything outside of that initial 640k conventional memory.
Mistake #2

Never install more than one antivirus unless you run one for deep scans once in a while and disable the other while it does it. Otherwise they fight.

See, I know that. I've never had more than one antivirus on any computer I set up. Quite frequently, I don't bother to install one at all. In fact, I joke that the easiest way to detect a virus is not to install an antivirus, then know that if your system starts running as badly as it would with one for no apparent reason, that you've probably gotten a virus. :laugh:
Never let someone else install stuff on your PC. HUGE mistake. Last time I did that I ended up with one of those stupid search bars on my browser.

Me too. I had to remove it after they left... that was the first thing I did when they weren't looking. ;)

That reminds me, I do so hope you're using chrome or firefox x64 by now...

Oh and you want fast and optimised... SSD FTW!!

Actually, I have started using Chrome, but switch back to Firefox x86 when doing secure transactions because so many people freaked out, and have screamed at me about Chrome invading privacy.

I would use Firefox x64, but it won't even run on my computer (the latest beta of FF 3.6 beta 3 crashes on startup, and there's no "normal" version.) IE 64-bit runs fine, as do 7-Zip and Wireshark, but 64-bit FF won't run on my Windows installation. It's not even officially supported, and all I can find are lousy outdated beta/alpha builds. I think they've abandoned support for 64-bit FF for Windows. Adobe still doesn't have a 64-bit flash player for Windows, and won't anytime soon. Linux is finally getting one, though, after years of demand.

SSD sounds great... if it's anything like those USB flash drives or flash memory cartriges for a Hard Drive, that's awesome... HD access will almost catch up to SDRAM memory.
 

Xander

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I wasn't given a choice. The guy insisted, and literally said, "I'm f**king this monkey, don't peek," if I tried to make any comments at all about what he was doing.
:rofl1:

Never, ever, trust a computer geek to make your machine the way you want it. The only method is to geek yourself :newwink:
If I'd had my way, Vista wouldn't have even been on that computer until SP1 came out. And it would have been the 64-bit version. I can run my old apps in a Virtual Machine, I learned how to do that on Linux when I wanted Windows compatibility.
Eew!! Linux?!?!?!?

A nice experiment but a pain to live with. Especially for a gamer. Fancy having free linux but paying for wine... it's just odd!
Come to think of it, I think part of the reason memory was being wasted was because I had exactly 4GB, and a video card with a lot of ram (600MB+ or something ridiculous)... meaning 32-bit addressing was probably throwing away some of my memory. Maybe half, though it claimed to recognize all of it. Argh, this reminds me of when DOS claimed to recognize all my Extended memory upon typing MEM, but it was a struggle to get it to run anything outside of that initial 640k conventional memory.
:D G33k :newwink:

Quite correct though. 32 bit can address almost 4Gb but then take off your graphics memory off that number and that's how much it can actually address.
See, I know that. I've never had more than one antivirus on any computer I set up. Quite frequently, I don't bother to install one at all. In fact, I joke that the easiest way to detect a virus is not to install an antivirus, then know that if your system starts running as badly as it would with one for no apparent reason, that you've probably gotten a virus. :laugh:
Bad girl!!! BAD!!

Seriously though, Avast or MSE and a decent spyware scanner will do the job like Spybot.
Actually, I have started using Chrome, but switch back to Firefox x86 when doing secure transactions because so many people freaked out, and have screamed at me about Chrome invading privacy.
I've heard of this but never seen anything which worried me. I'm wondering what the fuss is about.
I would use Firefox x64, but it won't even run on my computer (the latest beta of FF 3.6 beta 3 crashes on startup, and there's no "normal" version.) IE 64-bit runs fine, as do 7-Zip and Wireshark, but 64-bit FF won't run on my Windows installation. It's not even officially supported, and all I can find are lousy outdated beta/alpha builds. I think they've abandoned support for 64-bit FF for Windows. Adobe still doesn't have a 64-bit flash player for Windows, and won't anytime soon. Linux is finally getting one, though, after years of demand.
Oh the betas are quite good. I'm enjoying shredder 3 at the moment for my email though I am admittedly having a few teething problems with account setup for my email.
SSD sounds great... if it's anything like those USB flash drives or flash memory cartriges for a Hard Drive, that's awesome... HD access will almost catch up to SDRAM memory.
Not quite THAT quick but I've got a burst speed of like 180Mbs and a sustained speed of 150 out of two patriot SSDs on an AHCI RAID0.
 

Athenian200

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:rofl1:

Never, ever, trust a computer geek to make your machine the way you want it. The only method is to geek yourself :newwink:

I DIDN'T trust them. The machine was a surprise gift.
Eew!! Linux?!?!?!?

A nice experiment but a pain to live with. Especially for a gamer. Fancy having free linux but paying for wine... it's just odd!

Oh, please... I compiled and tweaked Wine myself (who needs crossweaver when you can do it yourself?), and "creatively acquired" VMWare for Linux until boches was released. ;) I've never paid a cent for Linux after my first distribution, outside the cost of blank CDs.

And believe me, I was really fed up with Windows 98 First Edition crashing all the time... to the point that I thought Linux was worth it. At the time I found Linux, I had become so disillusioned that I was always running in command prompt mode (basically DOS 7), and using Arachne as my web browser due to not being able to keep Windows working. Ah, the "joys" of trying to find winmodem kernel drivers, recompiling kernels, eventually buying a 56k Serial Port modem after you find the latest kernel can't use that old driver, and realizing you have to switch from AOL to Earthlink because their dial-in software only works on Windows. :doh: Yeah, when I was 11-14, I was a rabid anti-M$ person who always spelled it with a dollar sign (that's what an extended stay in the Linux community will do to you). It was the teenage version of how between 5-9, I was a rabid Nintendo fan and went around trying to "help" people who owned Sega or Sony systems, refusing to associate with them if I couldn't convince them to switch to Nintendo. Come to think of it, part of my motivation for switching to Linux might have been fear of the Xbox hurting Nintendo. :doh:

So, first stage, for Nintendo. Second stage, against Microsoft. Third stage, for my own self-interest.

Later on, I eventually switched to DSL, though, and all the problems went away... Linux practically configures Ethernet/DHCP for you.

I didn't use Windows between 1999-2002. After that, my Dad made me live at his house, and made me use Windows XP... after which I realized Windows wasn't as bad as it used to be. That's also why I skipped Windows 2000 in my reviews. I never used it, because I was on Linux full-time when that was out. Of course, I ended up using Windows 98SE at first because by this time most of my hardware was too old to run Windows XP.

:D G33k :newwink:

Quite correct though. 32 bit can address almost 4Gb but then take off your graphics memory off that number and that's how much it can actually address.

Yep. In fact, now I'm curious enough that I might try putting Vista back on a separate partition or something, without all the junk, to see how it works. That way the Windows 7 comparison will be more fair.

Bad girl!!! BAD!!

Seriously though, Avast or MSE and a decent spyware scanner will do the job like Spybot.

I do use MSE, actually, but I figured if it was an "essential," it didn't count as additional protection.
I've heard of this but never seen anything which worried me. I'm wondering what the fuss is about.

Me neither, honestly. I started using Chrome when it first came out, and only got worried when people fussed. Any reporting it does is enabled by a checkbox, and is mostly to help them fix bugs.

Not quite THAT quick but I've got a burst speed of like 180Mbs and a sustained speed of 150 out of two patriot SSDs on an AHCI RAID0.

Yeah... my 2 year old hard drives are so clearly the bottleneck in my system (installation programs show up instantly, a status bar shows up, the hard drive clicks for 30 seconds with no movement on the progress bar, then the progress bar completes suddenly) so it might be worth getting some. My Windows Experience won't get above 5.9 without them anyway. All the other components are rated at 7+.
 

Xander

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I DIDN'T trust them. The machine was a surprise gift.
Surprise!!! :doh:
:newwink:
Oh, please... I compiled and tweaked Wine myself (who needs crossweaver when you can do it yourself?), and "creatively acquired" VMWare for Linux until boches was released. ;) I've never paid a cent for Linux after my first distribution, outside the cost of blank CDs.
Well hark at her with her bottle glasses and full beard.

I got bored as soon as I saw the console. Soooo eighties retro!
And believe me, I was really fed up with Windows 98 First Edition crashing all the time... to the point that I thought Linux was worth it. At the time I found Linux, I had become so disillusioned that I was always running in command prompt mode (basically DOS 7), and using Arachne as my web browser due to not being able to keep Windows working. Ah, the "joys" of trying to find winmodem kernel drivers, recompiling kernels, eventually buying a 56k Serial Port modem after you find the latest kernel can't use that old driver, and realizing you have to switch from AOL to Earthlink because their dial-in software only works on Windows.
Try the creative problem. XFi sound card and not even a sniff of linux suport planned at the time... that and only one out of the twelve or so versions I tried actually worked and actually configured correctly.

Very poor linux experience. And yet I keep getting tempted to try again. If only it cost money!!
Yeah, when I was 11-14, I was a rabid anti-M$ person who always spelled it with a dollar sign (that's what an extended stay in the Linux community will do to you). It was the teenage version of how between 5-9, I was a rabid Nintendo fan and went around trying to "help" people who owned Sega or Sony systems, refusing to associate with them if I couldn't convince them to switch to Nintendo. Come to think of it, part of my motivation for switching to Linux might have been fear of the Xbox hurting Nintendo. :doh:
Errm it's not spelt M$?

I think you're closet 1337 and too afraid to front up.

:newwink:
So, first stage, for Nintendo. Second stage, against Microsoft. Third stage, for my own self-interest.
Errm my first was pulling capacitors out of PCs at school for the craft teacher. Then onto Amstrad CPCs and Dragon 32s (you know what disappointment is when you wait for half an hour for a tape to load only to land a plane and be told "game over"). I've only moved to PCs since like 10 yrs ago. It's a steep learning curve when you wipe everything including DOS off your first machine and don't have a bootable CD ROM and no DOS!
Later on, I eventually switched to DSL, though, and all the problems went away... Linux practically configures Ethernet/DHCP for you.
Practically = not actually right? Sound like Linux speak to me.... and it usually means "in very few paragraphs of code" :thelook:
I didn't use Windows between 1999-2002. After that, my Dad made me live at his house, and made me use Windows XP... after which I realized Windows wasn't as bad as it used to be. That's also why I skipped Windows 2000 in my reviews. I never used it, because I was on Linux full-time when that was out. Of course, I ended up using Windows 98SE at first because by this time most of my hardware was too old to run Windows XP.
2000 was good. It took a crowbar to move Dom off of it! He's now pondering Windows 7 after having avoided Vista for years only to end up with a laptop which has it and barely complaining (for him).
Yep. In fact, now I'm curious enough that I might try putting Vista back on a separate partition or something, without all the junk, to see how it works. That way the Windows 7 comparison will be more fair.
:dont: Either put another hard drive in or wait. Partitioning is purely for storage drives. It hampers performance and contributes to fragmentation.
I do use MSE, actually, but I figured if it was an "essential," it didn't count as additional protection.
:rofl1: Good point.

Personally I'm trialling Kaspersky 2010 and at present I'm quite impressed... which is good cause I think I've got it for another 230 days or so...
Me neither, honestly. I started using Chrome when it first came out, and only got worried when people fussed. Any reporting it does is enabled by a checkbox, and is mostly to help them fix bugs.
Pffft... I ignored the yelps. Until I see research I only see panicked security professionals and they always panic!
Yeah... my 2 year old hard drives are so clearly the bottleneck in my system (installation programs show up instantly, a status bar shows up, the hard drive clicks for 30 seconds with no movement on the progress bar, then the progress bar completes suddenly) so it might be worth getting some. My Windows Experience won't get above 5.9 without them anyway. All the other components are rated at 7+.
Well SSDs will rate 7+ my computers on like 7.2 total at present (a nice surprise from the RC saying 5.5 based on my measly 3870X2 graphics). But perhaps for a more financially minded gamer one of those F3 Spinpoint drives. Buy one big enough and you get 32Mb cache!!

Either that or a velociraptor. Cost per Gb is high compared to other mechanical drives but low compared to the SSDs and it is the fastest SATA drive money can buy. They're damned quiet too which is shocking considering the 10,000rpm speed!!
 

Athenian200

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Well hark at her with her bottle glasses and full beard.

I got bored as soon as I saw the console. Soooo eighties retro!

That console was like the 80s? Wow, I guess I really am an 80s fan.

Try the creative problem. XFi sound card and not even a sniff of linux suport planned at the time... that and only one out of the twelve or so versions I tried actually worked and actually configured correctly.

Very poor linux experience. And yet I keep getting tempted to try again. If only it cost money!!

I've never used an audio chip more advanced than a Sound Blaster 16 PCI, and am still using the speakers that came with my CD-ROM drive for my 486DX in 1993. Because I'm deaf in one ear, and thus I honestly can't tell the difference in "high fidelity" audio, and that. Actually can barely hear the difference between Stereo and Mono because I can't tell where sound is coming from in real life. I always make sure any audio chip I get is "Sound Blaster compatible," because that minimizes configuration issues.
Errm it's not spelt M$?

I think you're closet 1337 and too afraid to front up.

Of course I'm 1337. Didn't you know that already? ;)

I know, but it's to complain about their monopoly and monetary extortion. You see, the $ stands for money in America. So we sometimes replace a capital S with it to imply that the thing being discussed is expensive.


:newwink:

Errm my first was pulling capacitors out of PCs at school for the craft teacher. Then onto Amstrad CPCs and Dragon 32s (you know what disappointment is when you wait for half an hour for a tape to load only to land a plane and be told "game over"). I've only moved to PCs since like 10 yrs ago. It's a steep learning curve when you wipe everything including DOS off your first machine and don't have a bootable CD ROM and no DOS!

Well, congrats. I don't even know what a capacitor is! I think it has something to do with electricity, though... right? I've heard about that slow software tape loading before, though.

Practically = not actually right? Sound like Linux speak to me.... and it usually means "in very few paragraphs of code" :thelook:

Depends on the Distribution, actually. Quite a few will literally detect and configure it for you. Ubuntu even configured my USB printer automatically on my old Athlon XP computer. If you build Linux from scratch, though, of course it won't be that easy.

:dont: Either put another hard drive in or wait. Partitioning is purely for storage drives. It hampers performance and contributes to fragmentation.

Really? I never had problems last time, but back then I had a single 20GB drive. Then again, my system wasn't partitioned for long. Now I'm using RAID. So technically I do have another hard drive, but the system doesn't see two.

Okay, fine. I guess I won't bother. It's not worth the cost of testing. I hate the way computer performance works...
Well SSDs will rate 7+ my computers on like 7.2 total at present (a nice surprise from the RC saying 5.5 based on my measly 3870X2 graphics). But perhaps for a more financially minded gamer one of those F3 Spinpoint drives. Buy one big enough and you get 32Mb cache!!

Either that or a velociraptor. Cost per Gb is high compared to other mechanical drives but low compared to the SSDs and it is the fastest SATA drive money can buy. They're damned quiet too which is shocking considering the 10,000rpm speed!!

Those are Hard Drives? I was wondering why people wanted to put a Dinosaur into their system to make it run faster... because that usually has the opposite effect.

Well, I guess I'll be taking a closer look at SSD technology. I like the fact that it has no moving parts. Now if only they could replace CDs/DVDs with something more solid... those stupid motors wear out, and the darn things can only be burned once.
 

Xander

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That console was like the 80s? Wow, I guess I really am an 80s fan.
Languidge FAIL (my part). I mean't console as in the console window. The bit where you basically enter a text adventure with your OS in Linux.
I've never used an audio chip more advanced than a Sound Blaster 16 PCI, and am still using the speakers that came with my CD-ROM drive for my 486DX in 1993. Because I'm deaf in one ear, and thus I honestly can't tell the difference in "high fidelity" audio, and that. Actually can barely hear the difference between Stereo and Mono because I can't tell where sound is coming from in real life. I always make sure any audio chip I get is "Sound Blaster compatible," because that minimizes configuration issues.
You know you're the third person I know with only half hearing. You guys should organise a club or something!

As for sound cards, I'd be surprised if you'd need a sound blaster now. The on board stuff is non too shabby.
Of course I'm 1337. Didn't you know that already? ;)
G33k maybe but the1337 of altering Linux to actually do something exciting.... that's 3P1C!!
I know, but it's to complain about their monopoly and monetary extortion. You see, the $ stands for money in America. So we sometimes replace a capital S with it to imply that the thing being discussed is expensive.
:shock:
:hug:
I know what it stands for silly...
I've even been to the US... twice!!
Well, congrats. I don't even know what a capacitor is! I think it has something to do with electricity, though... right? I've heard about that slow software tape loading before, though.
Ah probably before you time then... for those of us who remember actual floppy disks not just those weird new fangled things with plastic cases... ah the old loading sound track....
Depends on the Distribution, actually. Quite a few will literally detect and configure it for you. Ubuntu even configured my USB printer automatically on my old Athlon XP computer. If you build Linux from scratch, though, of course it won't be that easy.
Oh I tried Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Fedora, SUSE, PCLinuxOS, X something or other... I got a whole bunch to try. I even paid for properly written disks rather than do it myself just in case I was making a hash of it!

I even tried BSD but that just frazzled me before I even had it installed!
Really? I never had problems last time, but back then I had a single 20GB drive. Then again, my system wasn't partitioned for long. Now I'm using RAID. So technically I do have another hard drive, but the system doesn't see two.
Basically if you partition your forcing the disk to separate where it writes information which makes it more complex to get the files in order. That and one of the partitions is placed further away from the centre so the head has to travel out to it all the time. Combine this with the times when you use both partitions and the head has to keep running back and forth... it's just not mechanically sound.

As for RAID. If you've striped then you're just forcing two drives to do it instead of one, same effect. If you've mirrored then you're getting no performance increase except in read times (as it can read from either disk) and you're getting slower write times as it has to write twice.

Best practice is three drives (whether one of those drives is RAID or not you need three drive letters on physically separate drives so if you've got a RAID 0 setup then you need 4 drives and so on). One drive for the OS by itself, one for storing all your files like music and pictures and so on and then one drive just for game installations. That way your files don't slow down your OS and your games get to have their own play space complete with the first and fastest part of the drive.

It also seems to kill most fragmentation IME.
Okay, fine. I guess I won't bother. It's not worth the cost of testing. I hate the way computer performance works...
Use XtremeSystems. They're snobby for the most part and very E1337ist but their information is usually quite good. Oh and Anandtech is another very good source of performance data... just don't believe everything you read about their air coolers... I swear I've never got those temps once even on water!!
Those are Hard Drives? I was wondering why people wanted to put a Dinosaur into their system to make it run faster... because that usually has the opposite effect.

Well, I guess I'll be taking a closer look at SSD technology. I like the fact that it has no moving parts. Now if only they could replace CDs/DVDs with something more solid... those stupid motors wear out, and the darn things can only be burned once.
:smile: Velociraptors are cool. They beat most other drives in RAID and even beat some SAS drives!!

SSDs are even better but hideously expensive (check out newegg but brace yourself!). Also they require special treatment to get the best from them. But still... when you do... damn are they quick...

As for optical drives... try alcohol 52%. It effectively copies a disk onto your hard drive (with various security protocols as required so punkbuster will operate normally), then installs up to 6 ghost optical drives which you can mount the disk image to. It means you're running your disks without having to load them, without the annoying whir of the drive and at hard drive speeds!! It's awesome. Though don't update it... it ruins all the disk images for some reason and then you have to copy them again which is a lengthy process!
 
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