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Tasty meat - biological advantage?

Feops

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Plants seem to have a wide variety in taste based on if they want to be eaten or not. Berries for example have a high incentive to be consumed and spread by various animals, especially birds. Other plants are tough and bitter, or difficult to digest, discouraging casual consumption. Certain animals adapt to eat them anyway but that's besides the point.

Now there are examples of animals with poisoned meat but they seem to be the minority. Many or most prey species have favor becoming difficult targets over removing themselves as targets entirely.

I'm wondering why this is? Has there been any research done on it? There's no reproductive advantage for an animal to be eaten but perhaps there is a long-term advantage to sustained culling of the weaker members? Or, perhaps "meat" is too specialized (compared to various plant matter) and suffers significant drawbacks when altered in a way other animals would find unpalatable?
 

Randomnity

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It's more a matter of the carnivores evolving to find meat tasty. In particular, the fat and glucose molecules in the muscle, which are just as useful in the body of the carnivore as in the herbivore.

The composition of meat reflects its function more than anything. Structure is closely related to function in the body. If its composition was changed much at all, it would be useless.

(that goes for non-muscle meat too; muscle is just easy as an example because it's most commonly eaten)
 

matmos

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I'm wondering why this is? Has there been any research done on it?

There has indeed been extensive research, as written about in last month's New Scientist.

The article was too long and boring to read, but I managed the first paragraph.

Esentially, nuts and berries are eaten and there seeds are poo-pooed out by those naughty monkeys.

Beef, on the other hand, has no seeds. Or nuts. Well the bulls do, but you'd be a fool to "plant" them.

Imagine a beef nut. Or a sheep tree.

Next.
 

Feops

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I must have phrased my original post poorly. I apologise for that.


Random:
Naturally meat is tasty to carivores because they evolved to value it. Just as plants are tasty to herbivores. Plants however seem to have diverged from prey animals in that few animals have chosen to reduce their attractive nature via toxins or otherwise spoil the value of their meats, instead favoring to escape or avoid predators outright. Plants don't have the escape option, but animals do have the poison option, and poison would seem like much less effort than active evasion. Thus my train of logic followed that perhaps having an attractive-yet-elusive package was an evolutionary advantage via culling. But I have no supporting evidence of such.

Banana:
I think I covered "certain plants want to be eaten" in the first line of my post. There was more to it than that.
 

Salomé

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I'm wondering why this is? Has there been any research done on it? There's no reproductive advantage for an animal to be eaten but perhaps there is a long-term advantage to sustained culling of the weaker members? Or, perhaps "meat" is too specialized (compared to various plant matter) and suffers significant drawbacks when altered in a way other animals would find unpalatable?

LOL. You make it sound as though organisms can choose their survival strategies. It doesn't really work that way. In any event, there are many poisonous insects, frogs, fish, and also creatures that are unpalatable or difficult to eat because of defensive 'armour'. And many plants that are not poisonous.
Nature solves problems in a variety of ways.
 

matmos

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I think I covered "certain plants want to be eaten" in the first line of my post. There was more to it than that.

^Quick editing. (I see what you did.)

No, no. Your phrasing was fine.

Sorry to interupt. Please carry on.
 

Randomnity

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LOL. You make it sound as though organisms can choose their survival strategies. It doesn't really work that way. In any event, there are many poisonous insects, frogs, fish, and also creatures that are unpalatable or difficult to eat because of defensive 'armour'. And many plants that are not poisonous.
Nature solves problems in a variety of ways.
Exactly. Not to mention, the structure of muscle is so specialized for its function that a mutation there is far more likely to be harmful (alter function) than helpful (unchanged function while adding toxicity).

Also, any toxin produced by mutation within 'meat' is almost certainly going to destroy the host animal if produced within it. Assuming prey and predator are both mammals, they will be almost always be susceptible to the same toxins.
 

01011010

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Esentially, nuts and berries are eaten and there seeds are poo-pooed out by those naughty monkeys.

Beef, on the other hand, has no seeds. Or nuts. Well the bulls do, but you'd be a fool to "plant" them.

Imagine a beef nut. Or a sheep tree.

Next.

:laugh:


OP: Is this pertaining to only animals that eat meat, or humans as well?
 

Feops

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Randomnity: Ah yes, this was the type of feedback/opinion I was hoping for. So basically you're saying that alterations to healthy muscle would likely impair the host more than any benefit given.


01011010: It's a musing on the evolution of plant vs animal defensive mechanisms so I guess humans would count. Humans cheat though.
 

ptgatsby

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01011010: It's a musing on the evolution of plant vs animal defensive mechanisms so I guess humans would count. Humans cheat though.

I wouldn't say you are comparing defensive mechanisms. For that to be accurate, you'd have to compare thorns with spikes, like roses with porcupines... or if you are comparing toxins, then stuff like nightshade with poison dart frogs.

The tasty berry is part of a reproductive strategy - that is, seeds can travel farther and/or be with higher nutrient soil. There is no comparable advantage for animals being eaten - they cease to be alive when eaten. Comparably, it would not be an advantage for a plant to be tasty, only the parts it wants to spread - a very selective method.
 

ajblaise

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Unless your goal is to eventually be domesticated with the purpose of being eaten, I don't see how being tasty would be an advantage.

Some animals have evolved the opposite way, they taste horrible, and this is so when a predator tries to eat them, they get spit out, and go on surviving.
 

CrystalViolet

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You've got to admit there are advantages to being domesticated though. Guaranteed food sources, protection from disease, protection from other predators. The next generation continues to reap the benefits. It wouldn't be a bad life. Maybe a bit boring.
 

ajblaise

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You've got to admit there are advantages to being domesticated though. Guaranteed food sources, protection from disease, protection from other predators. The next generation continues to reap the benefits. It wouldn't be a bad life. Maybe a bit boring.

I guess it's not that bad. Unless you're veal.
 

Randomnity

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Randomnity: Ah yes, this was the type of feedback/opinion I was hoping for. So basically you're saying that alterations to healthy muscle would likely impair the host more than any benefit given.
Given the framework that's evolved thus far, yes, I believe so. Of course there's always room for exceptions (though I don't think any mammals have poisonous flesh, afaik), but I don't see it as a likely thing to evolve. More useful would be something that takes effect before being eaten, and ideally is secreted outside the skin - like the poisons you see with a lot of frogs.
 

Edgar

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Given the framework that's evolved thus far, yes, I believe so. Of course there's always room for exceptions (though I don't think any mammals have poisonous flesh, afaik), but I don't see it as a likely thing to evolve. More useful would be something that takes effect before being eaten, and ideally is secreted outside the skin - like the poisons you see with a lot of frogs.

Poisons? Or delicious psychedelic drugs?

Depends who you ask, I guess.
 

EcK

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
And I could go in the 'evolutive' details and so on, but it appears to be so obvious I won't bother.
You guys are hopeless, i swear.
 

nozflubber

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You know, I got to thinking about this kind of thing but with strains of marijuana (go figure) - is it more beneficial for a strain of marijuana to have a high or low THC content? High content strains would be highly sought after, but also killed off and grazed sooner by police/harvesters respectively. A low THC content would have the opposite effects, making the low THC strain being able to have a more inconspicuous and indifferent presence....

It might seem counterintuitive that a plant would develop a positive psychoactive chemical that when inhaled or ingested gives a euphoric effect, since this means the plant will be hunted after and exterminated. However, if these hunter/gatherers are also Farmers/planners, the presence of the psychoactive ingredient will facilitate the population growth. One of the prime reasons why marijuana gained so much THC content over the past decades is due to economics/ease of transportation (higher THC weed means you don't have as much to carry to yield the effects), the other is that there is a somewhat symbiotic relationship between this plant and human populations.

I think part of the question of the strangeness in the OP And my example is to realize the primary characteristic of nature is "Symbiosis", even in the case when individual animals or plants become victims. If an animal were to have poisonous traits instead of ones beneficial to us, humans would taste these poisons then die. Said animal would NOT be harvested at all, merely killed of when it became an annoyance....

In fact, having a quality or property that is likable to humans (it will have a good taste) is probably one of the best things an organism can have these days. Do you really think dogs would be as prevalent and as diverse if we had become extinct several thousand years ago? So strange to think of, just realize life is about connections, not linear regressions and mere prey vs predator relationships.
 

EcK

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Oh god, do you people actually understand ANYTHING about evolution, and biology? Or simply LOGICS.

I'm done with this thread.
 

Feops

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In fact, having a quality or property that is likable to humans (it will have a good taste) is probably one of the best things an organism can have these days. Do you really think dogs would be as prevalent and as diverse if we had become extinct several thousand years ago? So strange to think of, just realize life is about connections, not linear regressions and mere prey vs predator relationships.

Corn is a pretty good example of this. The stuff bends over backwards to adapt to human needs. Such a wonderful plant. It's fuel! It's bread! It's sugar! It's cooking oil! It's a hundred other things! It grows at absurd densities!


I'm done with this thread.
Your whining and lack of constructive commentary will be missed. :violin:
 
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