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  1. #11
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    An interesting point, but it is worth noting that authors receive public lending rights from books borrowed from libraries, so actually they do get paid for that. The second hand books market is probably a better analogue.
    I never heard of that. Neither the public libraries nor the school libraries in my area pay such a thing, unless the authors are somehow paid by the publisher if they realize a copy has been bought by a library.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #12
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I'm not sure if this issue is so new. If I buy a book, does that give me the right to copy the words within it and give my copy to other people? Legally, the answer is no, of course. Still, I can see your point - many technology companies these days do seem very controlling. That was one of my objections when steam started to become popular for computer games. I don't use it. I don't use smart phones either. Not much of an answer perhaps, but it's one of the few I have at my disposal. Who knows, if enough people do the same thing, maybe the power of capitalism will force them to change their ways. An unlikely dream, I know.

    I am fully aware of the fact that I am second worlder that wondered in here but I just want to say that this isn't set in stone. In my place there are plenty of legal businesses that live from copying books. You take a book from a library or your university and go there and say from which to which page you want to make a photocopy and then the guy says when you should come back, depending on the other orders and they charge for this about 2 to 3 cents per page. Plus a little bit extra if you want to merge pages into a bookform that you can read. Therefore it is possible to get expensive books for a change.


    What is the relic of communism where all books were made and published by the government and therefore doing this wasn't a controversy, since there really wasn't private property. Even today very large chunk of books gets published through the ministry of culture, so the practice didn't really change over the decades.


    I simply want to point out that there are alternative ways of doing things. The problems behind this entire thread quickly fall apart if you start to chip away at the basic premises. (but I will leave to the others to do that)

  3. #13
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    I am fully aware of the fact that I am second worlder that wondered in here but I just want to say that this isn't set in stone. In my place there are plenty of legal businesses that live from copying books. You take a book from a library or your university and go there and say from which to which page you want to make a photocopy and then the guy says when you should come back, depending on the other orders and they charge for this about 2 to 3 cents per page. Plus a little bit extra if you want to merge pages into a bookform that you can read. Therefore it is possible to get expensive books for a change.


    What is the relic of communism where all books were made and published by the government and therefore doing this wasn't a controversy, since there really wasn't private property. Even today very large chunk of books gets published through the ministry of culture, so the practice didn't really change over the decades.


    I simply want to point out that there are alternative ways of doing things. The problems behind this entire thread quickly fall apart if you start to chip away at the basic premises. (but I will leave to the others to do that)
    Indeed. I have always considered the whole notion of "intellectual property" to be a bit of an oxymoron, almost in the sense that our native Americans, from what I understand, didn't have our modern concept of owning land.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #14
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Silly story as continuation.

    The EU asked my country to digitalize student info and how higher education works. Therefore the government did it but some high education institutions refused to accept this system in everyday life since it is seen as counter-productive and closed minded. So now my school that is owned by the government which pays the staff and tuitions doesn't accept the rules, since the staff (and students) like the flexibility in their work. Because once you take the computer out of the equation everything is becoming negotiable. While government/ministry is also ok with this judging by their reactions and the idea that money should decide everything isn't too well accepted here.


    Since we had so many wars and dictatorships we are all in guerilla mode by default. (for better or for worse)

  5. #15
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Indeed. I have always considered the whole notion of "intellectual property" to be a bit of an oxymoron, almost in the sense that our native Americans, from what I understand, didn't have our modern concept of owning land.
    Well, there are people in my part of the world that are screaming "We wouldn't end up as Native Americans!".


    Actually this can go two ways, if you go too far against intellectual property you may end up in a scenario that no one will put real effort into creating intellectual content. What is pretty bad as well.
    However having everything in copyright and 1984 style laws also isn't the real solution.

  6. #16
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    My friend works for FB and their gross protection of what they consider "theirs" is actually nothing short of pathetic. It's as if the really only do it so the nerds can feel important, it feels compeltley unreal and more like a bunch of children playing make believe.

    I'm not allowed to even enter the patio or join my friend for lunch AT ALL. I was allowed to attend the Christmas party at his work place once but you can't walk in the door without getting a badge and you are not allowed to go beyond the party room even with an escort. They take it so seriously and all I see is a bunch of Chihuahua's puffing out their chest and barking at me and I can only laugh and shake my head.

    Last time I actually informed the guy at the front desk " You know that no one gives a shit abut your dumbass VR tech, right?"

    He just kinda sighed " Yeaaaah."
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  7. #17
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I never heard of that. Neither the public libraries nor the school libraries in my area pay such a thing, unless the authors are somehow paid by the publisher if they realize a copy has been bought by a library.
    To be honest, I'm not sure how public lending rights are collected. I suspect they are calculated by how many times a book is borrowed, then paid by a central authority, whoever that may be. I guess the organisation of public libraries varies a bit from nation to nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    I am fully aware of the fact that I am second worlder that wondered in here but I just want to say that this isn't set in stone. In my place there are plenty of legal businesses that live from copying books. You take a book from a library or your university and go there and say from which to which page you want to make a photocopy and then the guy says when you should come back, depending on the other orders and they charge for this about 2 to 3 cents per page. Plus a little bit extra if you want to merge pages into a bookform that you can read. Therefore it is possible to get expensive books for a change.


    What is the relic of communism where all books were made and published by the government and therefore doing this wasn't a controversy, since there really wasn't private property. Even today very large chunk of books gets published through the ministry of culture, so the practice didn't really change over the decades.


    I simply want to point out that there are alternative ways of doing things. The problems behind this entire thread quickly fall apart if you start to chip away at the basic premises. (but I will leave to the others to do that)
    And there you go, I've learnt something new as well.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  8. #18
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Here is little point of history - did you know that patents were originally created to preserve knowledge? Before they existed, artisans and alchemists would often guard important knowledge from outsiders. Unfortunately, this meant that sometimes an unexpected death (massacre - the medieval world could be rather violent) meant that such knowledge was lost. Patents were designed to give a legal framework so people could share their knowledge without fear of losing the financial benefits they felt they had earned.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.
    Likes The Cat liked this post

  9. #19
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I heard that there will be pressures to split the FB into smaller chunks based on monopoly laws.

  10. #20
    Member ???'s Avatar
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    They do this with the hardware too now. Apple ids their chips and if you replace a faulty chip with another chip, the bios will see a different id and stop functioning. They've begun to make it so hard to fix stuff like a cell phone that it's easier to buy another one; but if they didn't glue parts together you could easily fix them.

    It's why it's so important that society fights monopolies; corporations will do anything to put a stranglehold on competition, even if it's something like self-repair or electronics repair businesses, which have slowly become an archaic business model. Corporations prefer that we throw our stuff away and buy more from them, even if it's not economical or good capitalism.

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