User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 87

  1. #21
    Member Sh*ttyKarmaKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4/7
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Tywin is an ESTJ. He's obsessed with keeping the status quo (Te-Si). I don't watch Vikings, but I heard from most sources that Ragnar is an NTJ.
    Likes Norexan liked this post

  2. #22
    Quetzalcoatl Norexan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sp
    Socionics
    LIE Te
    Posts
    2,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh*ttyKarmaKid View Post
    ENTJs are mostly depicted as ultimate villains- Emperor Palpatine, Sauron, Littlefinger, Negan, Shao Kahn, Lex Luthor...
    I dare anyone to present me an example of a healthy, heroic ENTJ in popular culture.
    Aquaman.

    Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unused
    The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
    ===Logical Crusader===

    Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.

  3. #23
    Member Sh*ttyKarmaKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4/7
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    Aquaman.
    I don't think he's an ENTJ, I've seen him typed as at least four or five different types, but I think that ESTJ seems more likely for him.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    While I like them both, Tywin's an ENTP and Lothbrok, an ESTP.
    Tywin, an ENTP? HOW? Just HOW? You'd definitely have to "show and prove" in order for me to get behind that one. He is almost the epitome of NTJness!

    And Ragnar's brother Rollo is the ESTP. But Ragnar, himself, is indeed an ENTJ--I love the Vikings series and will defend these typings to the death! lol

    I won't compare them by way of naturally occurring function stack but by corresponding perceiving and judging functions.

    Dominant Se Vs. Tertiary Se

    Rollo better exemplars the fearsome "warrior" motif and the corresponding insatiable bloodlust for hand to hand combat, in its essence, as ESTPs are more inclined to do lol; Though ESTPs and ENTJs (caught in a Te-Se loop) can look remarkably similar, Rollo in true ESTP fashion is more impulsive, focused on the hear and now, and not nearly as reflective and visibly/effectively cerebral as Ragnar is. ESTPs are literalists and more concerned with the tactical details of the present moment and what they can perceive with the five senses. Too much deep conceptualizing and theorizing bores and drains them and Rollo is most alive when he is in the heat of battle. Ragnar, via tertiary Se, can also relish in utilizing his Se (sometimes as a pressure release valve--see his drug addled relationship with Chinese Pusher Lady) but it's more in the way of accomplishing a goal, a means to an end and a push to act decisively and effectively recalibrate a plan if needs be. Ostensibly, Ragnar doesn't seem to possess the same appetite for battle that Rollo does, though he can most certainly kick ass.

    Dominant Te Vs. Auxiliary Ti

    ENTJs may not typically be ingenious innovators in so much as they are brilliant applicators of ingenious innovation. Ragnar wants more farm land and greater economic opportunities for his people and dom Te is about keenly envisioning the most effective outcome to any given situation or problem and the ability to set the corresponding plans into action by way of applying ideas and concepts, e.g., Ragnar's utilizing of the sun dial and sun stone (seafaring navigational technology), Floki's boat buildiing craftsmanship and ingenuity, and the priest Athelstan's extensive knowledge of foreign lands and the vast resources they possessed.

    An ESTP's auxiliary Ti is adept at identifying how the principles and logical systems in the user’s external environment could be manipulated to work to their advantage in the hear and now more so than planning in the long term. Again, Rollo utilizes a vast array of weaponry with devastating strategic efficacy. And when Kattegat attacked, he was able to instantly react with calculated cunning and efficiency, saving the lives of his loved ones as they retreated into the mountains.

    Tertiary Fe Vs. Inferior Fi

    Fe grants Rollo with more of an immediate and palpable charm; though he is brutal in battle, off-field he seems like a folksy, down-to-earth "mensch," "one of the guys." Furthermore, Rollo is quite concerned with being loved and admired for his battle prowess and is viscerally sensitive to being perceived as Ragnar's lesser brother; he actively seeks fame and glory within his community and purposefully thrusts himself into the center of attention. But Rollo more emotively wears his heart and feelings on his sleeve; when Ragnar is harsh and critical of Bjorn, Rollo is more sympathetic and consistently reaches out to him to affirm his worth and value. When Rollo becomes a count and is openly despised by his wife, Princess Gisla, he affably acquiesces to her refusal to bed him and consummate their marriage on their wedding night. There, his Fe shines through.

    Ragnar maintains a greater psychological distance to others and is a bit more aloof and removed, more visibly donning the heavy, wearisome crown of a King. Inferior Fi manifests in the form of Ragnar taking his loyal, dutiful, formidable wife Lagertha for granted and when she is unable to grant him more sons, he readily takes on Queen Aslaug in order to accomplish this. He even goes so far as to suggest that they all live together and is genuinely puzzled and feels betrayed when such a request isn't well received. And when Aslaug begins to stand in the way of his ambition, she incurs his disdain and gradually fades into irrelevance concerning his overarching aims, having already fulfilled her usefulness. Thus and unsurprisingly, his shitty Fi usage ultimately leaves him alone and reclusive.

    But Ragnar did frequently manifest his own brand of morality and deeply held values. On a raid where everyone was being mercilessly slaughtered, he showed compassion to a young, helpless child; he allowed Earl Haraldson the dignity and diplomacy of a warrior's battle and subsequent death, as opposed to expediently playing dirty. Once he takes his dear friend Athelstan under his protection, he never breaks with him regardless of differences in faith/belief and temporary changes in allegiances.

    Auxiliary Ni vs. Inferior Ni

    Ragnar is a forward looking visionary in the truest sense of the word. At various points throughout the series, Ragnar accesses Ni via "mystical" visions of Odin wandering nearby and watching Valkyries fly the dead off to Valhalla and at one point towards the end of his life, envisions himself being denied entry to Valhalla. He is driven by a pursuit of knowledge, by a belief that there is "more than just this." In the very first episode he remarked that "Odin gave his eye for knowledge. But I'd give much more." Look at Ragnar's close relationship with Athelstan and King Ecbert. He is drawn to their unique, usually abstracted perspectives and (blasphemously) debates the existence of the gods and the meaning of life. Moreover, Ragnar has showed a propensity for playing the long game while forgoing more immediate slights and provocations, as seen in his dealings with Jarl Borg, King Horik, King Aella, King Ecbert and Floki upon his killing of Athelstan.

    But inferior Ni, as demonstrated in Rollo, is a lot less trusting and reliant on one's gut iNtuition. Rollo is routinely skeptical and weary of Ragnar's seemingly unreasonable ambitious visions and their feasibility. And even when the Seer assures Rollo that his future will be far greater than he ever dared imagine, he is cynical and unconvinced. At one point in the series, he falls into a deep depression and despite the assurances of those close to him, can't see his way out of the fog--and only occasionally, did he show signs of foresight and clarity when considering the future implications of a certain line of action. But as Rollo's intuition matures, he becomes better at allowing his actions to be buttressed by underlying hunches, as witnessed in his desire to stay in Paris after a successful raid, where he eventually goes on to be a legendary count.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh*ttyKarmaKid View Post
    Tywin is an ESTJ. He's obsessed with keeping the status quo (Te-Si).
    IMO, he's not interested in maintaining the status quo for the sake of tradition and constancy in so much as he has a long term goal and vision that involves his family "having a dynasty that will last a thousand years" and has set about to make that happen. I'd think that "keeping the status quo" would more so apply to how things are naturally supposed to function based on how they've always functioned (in this case, as it relates to the longstanding feudal system present in their world), what is the right way and the wrong way to go about something, which would certainly entail the disposal of his family's flagrantly illegitimate claim to the throne.

    Also, I'd imagine Si would be reluctant to violate the ancient and sacred tradition of Guest rights ("when a guest, be he common born or noble, eats the food and drinks the drink off a host's table beneath the host's roof), as Tywin did in his planning and executing the Red Wedding that nearly decimated the core of House Stark. Si is more about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," whereas Ni is about synthesizing what will be most helpful to their goal, and in the case of Tywin Lannister, it's the positioning of his family as the powerful, regal, fearsome and ferocious Lions of House Lannister.
    Likes ChocolateMoose123 liked this post

  5. #25

    Default

    Oops, I messed up and was thinking of Tyrion, not Tywin. Tywin's an ESTJ. Way too traditionally rigid to be an ENTJ. It's all about the greatness of House Lannister and even though he despised Tyrion, any insult by anyone else to Tyrion, is an insult to House Lannister. That's logically inconsistent and hypocritical, considering his consistent abuse of Tyrion.

    As far as Ragnar's concerned, he made a lot of mistakes, relative to forecasting and strategy. It was brain dead obvious King Egbert would shaft him, once the majority of the Viking fighting force left the farmers. Lothbrok also failed to scout Paris. His tactics were that of some planning but more in-the-moment innovation and heavy reliance on the fighting abilities of the Vikings. That and his inability to rein in his lust and addiction. These are heavy Se elements, not indicative of Ni aux but are indicative of Ni inferior. Rollo was just a dumber version of Ragnar. And this is coming from a major fan of the show since Day 1.

    Ivar the Boneless is an ENTJ, albeit an insane one.

  6. #26
    Member Sh*ttyKarmaKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4/7
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Ah, you almost had me there, but you see, Tywin didn't violate guest right himself. No one was killed at his own home. He simply manipulated the Freys to do it, and in the books, he even justifies it this way. His ambition and orientation towards the future seems to be more of a product of Te-Ne loop, rather than Aux-Ni.

    And that's why I'm more than convinced he's an ESTJ, because of the loop. I've considered Tywin an ENTJ myself before, but then I've realised he doesn't have a Te-Se loop, because he's not an Se user of any kind. Contrast Littlefinger, an actual ENTJ with a Te-Se loop, which commands the Dom-Te to act out in a way of taking matters into your own hands occasionally, and taking a few risks using Tert-Se. Littlefinger NEEDS to be there to put a knife to Ned's throat, he NEEDS to push Lysa out of the moon door, and he NEEDS to try and steal a kiss from Sansa every now and then, and he admits taking risks is often necessary to serve both his Te and Ni, even though his loops are mostly compulsive, and prove to be his undoing (Which is what loops usually tend to be). Tywin, on the other hand, using his Te-Ne loop, NEEDS to consider moves and motives of all of his potential and actual enemies and allies, NEEDS to consider any kind of maneuver necessary to win the war, and he NEEDS to consider all of the unnecessary risks he has to avoid, and all of this backs up his Si more often than not.

    You will see that in all of his best scenes, he uses Si quite heavily, mostly in the conversations he has with his progeny, but ESPECIALLY in his dialogue with Tommen on Joffrey's funeral, where he tries to teach him about learning from history and always listening to good advice, even after well coming into age. Another ENTJ-ESTJ difference between Petyr and Tywin is also quite interestingly pointed out early in Season 3. Cersei talks to Baelish about obtaining proof about House Tyrell scheming against their family, saying how she can't simply tattle-tale them to Tywin, because he prefers concrete facts and evidence (S). Baelish then remarks how, to him personally, rumors are much more interesting (N).

  7. #27

    Default

    IMO, Baelish is an INTJ. He's very behind the scenes, puppet master and when brought into the light, loses his effectiveness.

  8. #28
    Member Sh*ttyKarmaKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4/7
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Nope, he's clearly externally-focused, and mostly interested in making his ends meet through the use of external, organised data, i.e., Dom-Te.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    20,734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh*ttyKarmaKid View Post
    I dare anyone to present me an example of a healthy, heroic ENTJ in popular culture.
    Infiltrate the CIA.
    Who, if not you. When, if not now.



  10. #30

    Default

    Baelish has a subjective focus in mind, that of the end goal of being King at any cost. He twists, turns and manipulates behind the scenes, premised on this end goal. He has contingency plan after contingency plan. That's a Ni dom, Te aux.

    If Baelish was a Te-dom, he'd be more focused on objective reality and more in the forefront, not strictly acting in an adviser capacity.
    Likes notmyapples liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. List of ENFPs in Popular Culture
    By Lina Rose in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 06-10-2020, 01:18 AM
  2. ISTJ's in popular culture
    By bilbotook in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 06-27-2016, 06:37 PM
  3. ESTJ's in popular culture
    By Giggly in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 03-15-2016, 10:11 AM
  4. ESFJ's in popular culture
    By bilbotook in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-20-2016, 11:33 AM
  5. INFJs in popular culture
    By Studmuffin23 in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 11-27-2015, 01:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO