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Einstein not an archetypical INTP

meowington

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update:
I've changed my mind after reading this article on similarities between INTPs & INFJs.

INFJ vs INTP | Psyphics

Seems like Einstein was an INTP after all.


-------


Einstein was not the typical INTP people make him out to be. Let alone quintessential. Anything but quintessential in fact.

1. He was remarkably idealistic + poetic + passionate + dreamy for an INTP :

To give just a few examples of thousands :

Oh, how I wish that somewhere
there existed an island
for those who are wise
and of goodwill! . .


If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales.

2. He did not put that much value on cold logic :

Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.

“I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”

3. He used plenty of very well developed Fe, which proves nothing except that this undeniably happens to be the inferior function of an INTP :

He used the royal "we" all the time for instance.

Another (arguably) example of Fe :

I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university.

4. He showed signs of inferior Se :

In the tv-series "Genius" there's a scene at episode 1 where he visits the doctor and keeps insisting there's something physically wrong with him, coining eczema. The scene obviously serves to point out the obsessive side about his physical wellbeing. Hypochondria is typical for inferior Se or Ni-Dom if you will (INTJ/INFJ).

5. He (almost exclusively!) spoke in metaphors :

Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.

Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.

Nationalism is an infantile thing. It is the measles of mankind.

Sure, there are many examples that demonstrate Ti in Einstein. But his Ti wasn't necessarily his dominant function. I'm fairly certain that his dominant function was Ni.
This infamous quote comes to mind : The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
And no, he did not mean Ne, but Ni.

His function stack was Ni-Fe-Ti-Se : He was imho very likely an INFJ (his insatiable lust for knowledge/mystery/discovery/science stems from his desire to serve humanity) , and he was definitely NOT an archetypical INTP.

on a sidenote : My own great grandfather taught Einstein's daughter Margot sculpturing. Einstein came over to dinner once with his daughter. At the end of the evening he asked my great grandfather's 18 yr old son "do you want a souvenir ?" (arguably Fe) and wrote him a small note. I don't recall exactly (could look it up. my father has a copy.) but it was again something that stressed the importance of art (see point 1).

I rest my case. Bring it on.
 
Last edited:

OrangeAppled

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All of that seems very INTP to me...it seems INxP in general.

All the imaginative, romantic, metaphorical stuff is Ne... Jung's Ne is arguably the most romantic type, IMO, perhaps followed by Fi. Jung's Ti is someone who has a strong sentimental/romantic streak that can overtake them at times. It's also someone a LOT more focused on moral principles than Ti-dom are made out to be in MBTI or MBTI-like systems.

Awareness of body sensations can be associated with Si too. I don't think typing by inferior functions is very good though, and neither is assigning specific behaviors or comments to functions. The entire personality/mentality may be typed using patterns in behavior and words, and the pattern keeps pointing to INTP...

If anything, this supports his being prototypical INTP.
 

Poki

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Einstein is an Ne version of me :laugh: INTP to the bone.

Most outwardly "logic" people are Te anyway. Ti does it all internally and all that comes out is the results, not so much the logic itself.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I have wondered if Einstein was an ENTP in part because of his focus on imagination over systematic logic. He also had numerous affairs and women "lavished gifts on him", which is rather social for an INTP (and I know social extroversion is different from function extroversion, but I lived with INTPs for 20 years and Einstein sounds a bit too social to be a Ti-dom who are more often lost in thought with a higher level of social apathy.)

Albert Einstein's Love Life: The Wives, the Affairs - Biography.com
 

GavinElster

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I think he's an intuitive dominant in my version of functions theory (which I obviously consider better justified than alternatives if I bother subscribing). I'm not going to comment on dichotomies as I think they should be treated separately.

I think he is T>F, however...again, in functions theory.
 

Totenkindly

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Maybe the description of the "quintessential INTP" being used is too extreme.

That's the problem with type descriptions -- they are extremes, they aren't real... or at least you never get the full range and sense of an individual just by knowing their summarized type.
 

Kanra Jest

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So basically he's like me in almost every way.

To those dear, I can be quite giving with gifts or paying for meals randomly. I have a huge imagination, and my logic tries to hold it all together somehow to make it all work... I've grown up with story ideas since I was a kid. Also when I am in love (which is very very rare) I have been known to be romantic. Even a bit poetic... I also have values underneath this cooler distant exterior. A sense of cold right justice in some cases when I think it's deserved.

At times when taking medication I've gotten paranoid over my body and had to make sure I was ok. Or when I took too much caffeine(that 5 hour stuff) and had to distract myself to relax and not panic... since it didn't wear off after I was done with the work I needed to do.

Does that make one absolutely not an INTP suddenly? It's little different than Einstein here.
 

meowington

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Ok all feedback very much appreciated.
I've always had a hard time understanding INTPs.

So maybe I have the following misconceptions :

-Only INFJs speak in metaphors.
-INTPs are not poetic.
-Only INTJs/INFJs suffer hypochondria
 

Cellmold

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"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

Was he talking about MBTI though? :rly???:
 

meowington

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"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

Was he talking about MBTI though? :rly???:

I supose not. I even think if he was alive today he couldn't care less about something like MBTI.
But indirectly, I think he definitely meant intuition in the same sense as we understand MBTI Ni/Ne today.
If I recall correctly he came to certain realizations by picturing himself on the sun and then riding a ray of light through space.
Also if I recall correctly he came up with his relativity theories before age 20 through intuition and only later in life worked out the mathematics.
 

Poki

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So basically he's like me in almost every way.

To those dear, I can be quite giving with gifts or paying for meals randomly. I have a huge imagination, and my logic tries to hold it all together somehow to make it all work... I've grown up with story ideas since I was a kid. Also when I am in love (which is very very rare) I have been known to be romantic. Even a bit poetic... I also have values underneath this cooler distant exterior. A sense of cold right justice in some cases when I think it's deserved.

At times when taking medication I've gotten paranoid over my body and had to make sure I was ok. Or when I took too much caffeine(that 5 hour stuff) and had to distract myself to relax and not panic... since it didn't wear off after I was done with the work I needed to do.

Does that make one absolutely not an INTP suddenly? It's little different than Einstein here.

I am very similiar to the emotional part. I have written poetry about how i feel and what i think. There is a huge misconception about Dom Ti and logic. As if we have to be outwardly logical...other can project their "logical" onto others, but we always have our logic based reasoning behind things. Its generally very complicated, has alot of data input, and its how we live life by our logic. Its a fuzzy style logic as its illogical to think that you could even encompass every single picture or possibility to make the best choice. All we got is "our" best choice. It is by far some simple logic that is blind to emotions. Logic says "emotions" are part of the puzzle because you are dealing with humans, on top of how suppression can be good or bad at times.

I have been deemed very warm, cuddly, comfortable. Not rigid logic driven cold. I can be, but thats a choice i make based on internal logical analysis.
 

anticlimatic

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Einstein was not the archetypical INTP people make him out to be. Let alone quintessential.
Your grasp on INTPs needs work. Our logic transcends logic:

If A = B, then C + D + F - G could incidentally equal B but not A.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Do you think INTPs are just cold, emotionless robots? No, that's the IxTJs...just kidding.

It seems a lot of prominent INTP types have or had somewhat a flair for the metaphorical and poetic [see: Thomas Jefferson (assuming he was INTP and not INFJ), Adam Smith and the "invisible hand" concept/metaphor, multiple prominent philosophers who were likely INTPs, Abraham Lincoln, et al]. They are primarily abstract logicians, but that can encompass a broad swath of ideas, pursuits, interests and inclinations. While they seek precision and accuracy to some degree, their tendency to abstract thought requires a certain amount of metaphor to get their thoughts and ideas across to the world.

I would say that there are subtypes, and some INTPs fit the mold of the poet-scientist subtype.

At one point I questioned Einstein's type, so I reread (skimmed) Ideas & Opinions, and my doubts were wrong.
 

meowington

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Awareness of body sensations can be associated with Si too.

True. But particularly inferior Si types.

To quote Jung on the effects of inferior Si :

Jung said:
His conscious attitude towards both sensation and object is one of ruthless superiority. Not that he means to be ruthless or superior--he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees and rides roughshod over it, just as the sensation type has no eyes for its soul. But sooner or later the object takes revenge in the form of compulsive hypocondriacal ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.

It's not impossible for anyone to experience bouts of hypochondria I guess, but types with inferior Si/Se are particularly prone to it. Because the Sensation gets mangled through iNtuition (Ni for inferior Se, Ne for inferior Si), possibly resulting in excessive worrying and theorizing on bodily sensations.

INTPs don't have an inferior Si (or Se). It's the tertiary function in INTPs. It's well developed.

I don't think typing by inferior functions is very good though

Why not ? As it stands in direct corelation with the dominant function.

I suppose we must stop typing by dominant function then too ?
 

meowington

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Do you think INTPs are just cold, emotionless robots? No, that's the IxTJs...just kidding.

Well, sometimes I do :devil: Can you blame me ? :D Inferior Fe anyone ?

My dad is an INTJ. I know first hand that behind the cold exterior of NT types there lies great emotional depth too.

And if Einstein really was an INTP : that dude was laden with emotional depth and wisdom. (still not convinced though...)
 

HisKittyKat

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I know I'm alone in my thinking however I think he was a Te Fi user.
 

Obfuscate

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Einstein was not the typical INTP people make him out to be. Let alone quintessential. Anything but quintessential in fact.

1. He was remarkably idealistic + poetic + passionate + dreamy for an INTP :

To give just a few examples of thousands :

Oh, how I wish that somewhere
there existed an island
for those who are wise
and of goodwill! . .


If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales.

2. He did not put that much value on cold logic :

Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.

“I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”

3. He used plenty of very well developed Fe, which proves nothing except that this undeniably happens to be the inferior function of an INTP :

He used the royal "we" all the time for instance.

Another (arguably) example of Fe :

I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university.

4. He showed signs of inferior Se :

In the tv-series "Genius" there's a scene at episode 1 where he visits the doctor and keeps insisting there's something physically wrong with him, coining eczema. The scene obviously serves to point out the obsessive side about his physical wellbeing. Hypochondria is typical for inferior Se or Ni-Dom if you will (INTJ/INFJ).

5. He (almost exclusively!) spoke in metaphors :

Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.

Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.

Nationalism is an infantile thing. It is the measles of mankind.

Sure, there are many examples that demonstrate Ti in Einstein. But his Ti wasn't necessarily his dominant function. I'm fairly certain that his dominant function was Ni.
This infamous quote comes to mind : The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
And no, he did not mean Ne, but Ni.

His function stack was Ni-Fe-Ti-Se : He was imho very likely an INFJ (his insatiable lust for knowledge/mystery/discovery/science stems from his desire to serve humanity) , and he was definitely NOT an archetypical INTP.

on a sidenote : My own great grandfather taught Einstein's daughter Margot sculpturing. Einstein came over to dinner once with his daughter. At the end of the evening he asked my great grandfather's 18 yr old son "do you want a souvenir ?" (arguably Fe) and wrote him a small note. I don't recall exactly (could look it up. my father has a copy.) but it was again something that stressed the importance of art (see point 1).

I rest my case. Bring it on.

than i am not either... one of us is wrong...
 
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