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Einstein not an archetypical INTP

Riva

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Most outwardly "logic" people are Te anyway. Ti does it all internally and all that comes out is the results, not so much the logic itself.

This.

Talk to an IxTJ and a INTP and you'd never guess that the INTP is the T dom. But ask them what they are thinking and how they arrived at it and you'd realize they are undeniably T (Ti to be more specific).

All the imaginative, romantic, metaphorical stuff is Ne... Jung's Ne is arguably the most romantic type, IMO, perhaps followed by Fi. Jung's Ti is someone who has a strong sentimental/romantic streak that can overtake them at times. It's also someone a LOT more focused on moral principles than Ti-dom are made out to be in MBTI or MBTI-like systems.


Anyway, you know what they say:

Warm fuzzy teddybear theory

INFJ - cold on outside, warm and fuzzy on the inside
INFP - warm and fuzzy inside and out
INTP - warm on the outside, hard as a rock inside
INTJ - cold and hard inside and out

I agree with the INTP and INTJ descriptions.
 

Kas

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About Ti vs Te I think these are different kinds of logic- Ti based on induction and Te based on deduction (I'm talking about dominant way of thinking). Due to that Ti tends to create more new ideas, while Te tends to stay closer to the truth.

Not about ti-dom but imo great example of Ne-Ti archetype is Wilhelm from "Name of Rose":
I was trying to tell you that the search for explicative laws in natural facts proceeds in a tortuous fashion. In the face of some inexplicable facts you must try to imagine many general laws, whose connection with your facts escapes you. Then suddenly, in the unexpected connection of a result, a specific situation, and one of those laws, you perceive a line of reasoning that seems more convincing than the others. You try applying it to all similar cases, to use it for making predictions, and you discover that your intuition was right. But until you reach the end you will never know which predicates to introduce into your reasoning and which to omit. And this is what I am doing now. I line up so many disjointed elements and I venture some hypotheses. I have to venture many, and many of them are so absurd that I would be ashamed to tell them to you. You see, in the case of the horse Brunellus, when I saw the clues I guessed many complementary and contradictory hypotheses: it could be a runaway horse, it could be that the abbot had ridden down the slope on that fine horse, it could be that one horse, Brunellus, had left the tracks in the snow and another horse, Favellus, the day before, the traces of mane in the bush, and the branches could have been broken by some men. I didn’t know which hypothesis was right until I saw the cellarer and the servants anxiously searching. Then I understood that the Brunellus hypothesis was the only right one, and I tried to prove it true, addressing the monks as I did. I won, but I might also have lost. The others believed me wise because I won, but they didn’t know the many instances in which I have been foolish because I lost, and they didn’t know that a few seconds before winning I wasn’t sure I wouldn’t lose. Now, for the events of the abbey I have many fine hypotheses, but there is no evident fact that allows me to say which is best. So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now. Let me think no more, until tomorrow at least.”
I understood at that moment my master’s method of reasoning, and it seemed to me quite alien to that of the philosopher, who reasons by first principles, so that his intellect almost assumes the ways of the divine intellect. I understood that, when he didn’t have an answer, William proposed many to himself, very different one from another. I remained puzzled.
“But then ...” I venture to remark, “you are still far from the solution. ...”
“I am very close to one,” William said, “but I don’t know which.”
“Therefore you don’t have a single answer to your questions?”
“Adso, if I did I would teach theology in Paris.”
“In Paris do they always have the true answer?”
“Never,” William said, “but they are very sure of their errors.”
“And you,” I said with childish impertinence, “never commit errors?”
“Often,” he answered. “But instead of conceiving only one, I imagine many, so I become the slave of none.”


I agree with the INTP and INTJ descriptions.

Good that not about NFs . Warm and fuzzy are puppies from what I noticed. :huh:
 

Poki

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About Ti vs Te I think these are different kinds of logic- Ti based on induction and Te based on deduction (I'm talking about dominant way of thinking). Due to that Ti tends to create more new ideas, while Te tends to stay closer to the truth.

Not about ti-dom but imo great example of Ne-Ti archetype is Wilhelm from "Name of Rose":





Good that not about NFs . Warm and fuzzy are puppies from what I noticed. :huh:

I dont find Te closer to Truth actually. At first glance Te wins for basic logic, longer term Ti wins due to accuracy which shows holes in Te logic. Te will set of a bomb, Ti will have accurate laser guided missles
 

Peter Deadpan

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I've changed my mind after reading this article on similarities between INTPs & INFJs.

INFJ vs INTP | Psyphics

Seems like Einstein was an INTP after all.

Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed this. I'm constantly back and forth on whether my bf is INTP or INFP for some odd reason. Anyway, working to elaborate my concrete understanding of the functions and how they interact with one another.
 

Kas

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I dont find Te closer to Truth actually. At first glance Te wins for basic logic, longer term Ti wins due to accuracy which shows holes in Te logic. Te will set of a bomb, Ti will have accurate laser guided missles

I haven't meant that one is more accurate than the other in the end, I meant during the process.
 

Poki

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I haven't meant that one is more accurate than the other in the end, I meant during the process.

Sounds like image and perception thing. As long as you dont know the end and are clueless about holes in the process they are more accurate? Sounds about right...i agree.
 

meowington

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There's a fundamental problem with pulling out sinsular quotes to prove a point. It's going to require much more than a couple of sayings to claim that his thought process is INFJ rather than INTP. None of what you pulled out necessarily disproves INTP unless you're solely going off of stereotypes. Also, you've ignored the other functions within INTP, focusing on only Ti to try and prove your point.

  1. How does this point to INFJ? Why does this necessarily go against INTP? They can't be dreamy or idealistic? They still use high Ne...
  2. Again, Einstein was creative. He put value on what we don't yet know and could know rather than all we know now. This doesn't disprove Ne. Ti actually helps prompt him to use his creativity (Ne) to try and fully understand how the world works beyond our current knowledge.
  3. That's just being a good person. Also, couldn't you twist this around to say this actually exemplified Fi usage? Fe may be more prone to understand social standing and treat people according to it. Also, him being inferior Fe doesn't mean he's callous.
  4. That's a TV show, so this entire point is moot. Did that even happen in real life?
  5. Speaking in metaphors is a great example of high Ne usage. Which INTPs have.

You made some valid points. Not going over this again. I've changed my mind in the meanwhile.
 

burningranger

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You guys still haven't figured it out after all these years studying typology? If the guy in question is cool you type him as an ENFP....if he sucks balls you type him as anything else. So I guess Einstein was an ENFP...but he was just dumb to not foresee his work would be used to create the A-bomb. Okay, I scratch that....that's definately the work of an NT.
 

Beaumer

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Dear meowington,

I think you are absolutely right in your assessment. Let me add one thing.
Einstein had many affairs. This is an exponent of poor impulse control and is such a typical INFJ thing. Think of Marlon Brando, Serge Gainsbourg, Carl Jung, Dosteovsky, Tolstoy, Saul Bellow. . . .
So I can only say one thing: chapeau!
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I own a copy of Ideas and Opinions. I think INTP is an accurate assessment. What is important and noteworthy is not that he held a lot of humanitarian views, but rather his very logical line of thinking in justifying those views.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Dear meowington,

I think you are absolutely right in your assessment. Let me add one thing.
Einstein had many affairs. This is an exponent of poor impulse control and is such a typical INFJ thing. Think of Marlon Brando, Serge Gainsbourg, Carl Jung, Dosteovsky, Tolstoy, Saul Bellow. . . .
So I can only say one thing: chapeau!

Having lots of affairs and poor impulse control is not accurate grounds for determining psychological type.

Your reasoning here is almost circular, and it’s exactly the sort of noob stereotyping that makes the type community look juvenile and unscientific, that gives fuel to skeptics who challenge Jungian-based systems as little more than a parlor game.
 
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