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The Dark Knight

Mondo

Welcome to Sunnyside
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I didn't see anything particularly intuitish about her.

Everyone always assumes that the title elevated emoter must be NF.


Bzzt.

Yea, the more I think about it, the more sense ESFJ makes than ENFJ.

Whether the Joker is a 'sociopath' or not- it is clear that he is a danger to others. I wouldn't care about his aptitude for empathy- if he is capable of much empathy but is destroying Gotham- I wouldn't give him a pass!
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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2,126
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INTJ
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1w9
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i think the whole what is batman debate comes down to:

his activities and technical stuff, his adeptness at burglary make me think ISTP.
his inability to kill the joker out of principle, his moment where the joker "wins" at getting batman to hit him in the interrogation makes me think Fi.

ISTPs have had an archetype of the psycho-vigilante as i saw somewhere before...but ultimatly batman is more than a vigilante...he is more of a martyr who has yet to die (refering to the dark night)....that again says Fi.

INTJ could satisfy the technical mastery AND the Fi...but do we think batman could be such slave to a TERTIARY Fi????? Im doubtful.

I think INFP who has been driven to the edge (push them too far and they snap) is more likely...the snapping event was when the best man in gotham, his father was killed...i think thatd be enough to push an INFP to some inferior functions to act out on his rage/vengence on crime.
 

runvardh

にゃん
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sx/so
I think people just have a hard time believing an INFP can handle technology past basic uses. Funny thing is, I'm a computer technician, I'm into snowboarding, and I'm not bad with a sword... Either an INFP is capable of this stuff or I'm not INFP...
 

Mondo

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I think people just have a hard time believing an INFP can handle technology past basic uses. Funny thing is, I'm a computer technician, I'm into snowboarding, and I'm not bad with a sword... Either an INFP is capable of this stuff or I'm not INFP...

That's not the reason why I think Batman's INTJ.
He's incredibly independent in the Ni sense.
I agree that he has Fi but I think it's a tertiary function.
I don't think the INFP would be as comfortable doing what he had to do in the end as an INTJ would be.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
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Yin
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One
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I think people just have a hard time believing an INFP can handle technology past basic uses. Funny thing is, I'm a computer technician, I'm into snowboarding, and I'm not bad with a sword... Either an INFP is capable of this stuff or I'm not INFP...

Well, I never ruled out that he was Feeler, but still felt more like he was an INFJ. It might partly be because I'm sure he's a One, and Ones tend to be INFJs much more often than INFPs. *shrug*

The bigger point is that the MBTI might be too simple. This may be yet another situation where going straight to the functions would yield more accurate conjecture.
 

Snowey1210

New member
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141
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ENTP
The Joker is too tough to type as he is obviously psychotic. However from what is suggested in the film he does play out as an ENTP, admittedly an extremely anarchist one without any boundaries.

He doesn't appear to have the level of planning possessed by a J, and any sort of crime he commits still has that smash-and-grab mentality that doesn't seem as conducive with J reasoning. He demonstrates the ability to think ahead (Jail scene for example) however I see this as more of a function of his Ne, rather than a judging capacity.

Batman is a tough one, but I bring it back to that classic MBTI question regarding "Justice over Mercy". Whilst Batman does spare criminals lives, his whole mentality is to do with bringing justice to the city (notably in a manner very by the book). So in this case I'd argue that he was a T. Think also of the two bombs that were going off at once and who he decides to save. To me this is more of a decision that a T would make. The tricky part is the S-N, I'm leaning more towards an N because he seems to have a thought out long range vision. So I'm going with INTJ.

Just on a side note I thought the acting in this movie was brilliant, I haven't watched anything in the past couple of years that had such diverse character acting. All the leads were fantastic, and Ledger deserves an Oscar for playing a character so against his usual type.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
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Warning bit fat SPOILERS below!

Batman is almost always portrayed as an INTJ, from the comics to Adam West to Michael Keaton to etc.... However I think that Christian Bale's Batman is more of an ISTP.

First of all the loner vigilante is more of an ISTP archetype anyway, so you need to look for where he breaks that stereotype to get him to be INTJ. Secondly most Batman portrayals have him as an obsessive compulsive planner which really solidifies him as an INTJ. ("I packed my Bat thermal underwear just in case Mr. Freeze launched an unexpected sneak attack.") Christian Bale's Batman does not have that. In fact usually Batman has more scientific expertise and designs his own gadgets, but Lucious Fox handles the gadgets this time.

Lastly this Batman is more emotionally detached than other Batman portrayals. In the moment where his personal affections are tested the most Batman does not save his loved one. He makes the coldly rational choice (Ti) instead of the one that benefits him personally. That is an ISTP. INTJ's may be more thinker than feeler, but they are dominant intuitives. When someone really close to them is threatened they always save them first. Or if they didn't they would show a lot more regret and emotional distress afterward than the Christian Bale Batman did.

This Batman a feeler? No way. After his girl died a feeler would have trouble getting out of bed the next morning, much less go out and fight crime. (In reality most feelers wouldn't hesitate to save the girl first.) What about all the moralizing? This Batman does a lot of emotionally detached moralizing, which is common for Ti. On the other hand Fi is moralizing with empathy. This Batman is moral but he isn't empathetic. (Just look at most of BlueWing's post on this site. He's the same way.)

Overall this Batman shows himself to be coldly rational (Ti) with his decisions filtered through here and now perceptions (Se). In the first movie he seemed impulsive at times, but that is because of Se rather than any F. Christian Bale's Batman is an ISTP.
 

Mondo

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This Batman a feeler? No way. After his girl died a feeler would have trouble getting out of bed the next morning, much less go out and fight crime. (In reality most feelers wouldn't hesitate to save the girl first.) What about all the moralizing? This Batman does a lot of emotionally detached moralizing, which is common for Ti. On the other hand Fi is moralizing with empathy. This Batman is moral but he isn't empathetic. (Just look at most of BlueWing's post on this site. He's the same way.)
Batman went out to save the girl but the Joker lied about their locations- so he ended up saving Harvey instead.
I still see more of N over S.
If not in Batman, at least it's true for Bruce Wayne- a definite N.
I'm starting to lean more towards INFP these days..
 

RunnDMC

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The whole idea of batman and fear is so symbolic that it seems an ISTP wouldn't waste time with it.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
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Batman went out to save the girl but the Joker lied about their locations- so he ended up saving Harvey instead.

Yes.

As a sidenote, this is a common error; the Joker intentionally misled Batman so that he would mistakenly rescue Harvey Dent.
 

ArchitectofFate

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yea Joker is ENTP most definitely


I have a strong affinity for people with ENTP, ENFP, and ENTJ types
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
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Yes.

As a sidenote, this is a common error; the Joker intentionally misled Batman so that he would mistakenly rescue Harvey Dent.

Ah I missed that detail. :doh: Still I think an INTJ would have either mourned more or suffered more at the loss of such a close loved one. Only an IxTP could shrug off something like that so quickly.


Mondo said:
I'm starting to lean more towards INFP these days..

An INFP would need at least a week in bed with ice cream and oreos before recovering from such a loss. ;)


RunnDMC said:
The whole idea of batman and fear is so symbolic that it seems an ISTP wouldn't waste time with it.

I belive that Ra's Al Ghoul came up with that idea originally (the idea of a symbol being more than a just a man). Batman found it appealing and adopted it into his persona. ISTP's readily adopt ideas that they find appealing. That is not against type.
 

Usehername

On a mission
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Did Harvey Dent know that The Joker was planning on telling Batman the wrong location between him and her?

That I couldn't figure out. Because he tried to commit suicide before he got rescued, so I figured he knew even though it wasn't explicitly stated.
 

BetaSwimmer

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Quick question, and this may have already been proposed. But in lue of the recent two movies, what do most people think Bruce was before he became the Batman?
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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Quick question, and this may have already been proposed. But in lue of the recent two movies, what do most people think Bruce was before he became the Batman?

they allude to how he dropped out of princeton. at least his talk with the butler indicated such....then he became a theif. and then met the league of shadows...

gosh he was a theif...thats one more ISTP (not saying all ISTPs are theives....just that i have known more than one ISTP who excelled at stealing)
 

GZA

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Even though I havn't seen the movie I agree with the joker being an ENTP or ENTJ. He sees the world as his personal playground to wreak havoc in. Thats how a good friend ENTX I know sees things as well -he lives to play. The Joker takes this to psychotic extremes.

But I havn't seen the movie so skip this post...
Now that I have seen it...

Joker seems INFP to me, or maybe INFJ. He seems like a feeler for sure, he's into the drama and he is interesting in people primarily. He also wants to see Batman unmasked, with nothing to hide. Very good take on it too... now that I've seen it I think an ENTJ/INTJ take on it would be too obvious....

Batman: ISTP
Rachel: ESFJ (not developed enough really)
Harvey Dent: ENFX
 

Mondo

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The Liquid Laser said:
Ah I missed that detail. Still I think an INTJ would have either mourned more or suffered more at the loss of such a close loved one. Only an IxTP could shrug off something like that so quickly.
I think that an INTJ- since he prefers T over F- would be able to go on with what he thinks he's supposed to do and put his feeling aside. Contrast that with F-type Harvey Dent who was definitely not able to do that.

GZA said:
Joker seems INFP to me, or maybe INFJ. He seems like a feeler for sure, he's into the drama and he is interesting in people primarily. He also wants to see Batman unmasked, with nothing to hide. Very good take on it too... now that I've seen it I think an ENTJ/INTJ take on it would be too obvious....
Interesting.. while I don't agree with you (I think the Joker's ENTP)- I will say that Heath Ledger is a definite INFP- so, in that respect, the Joker is an INFP playing an ENTP role- haha!
 

Mozzes

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they allude to how he dropped out of princeton. at least his talk with the butler indicated such....then he became a theif. and then met the league of shadows...

gosh he was a theif...thats one more ISTP (not saying all ISTPs are theives....just that i have known more than one ISTP who excelled at stealing)

You must recall why he decided to become a thief - he wanted to crawl inside the criminal mind, to understand it and learn how to oppose it and to turn the fear mongering back on the corrupt. He was searching for a path of justice. Then there's his almost complete unwillingness to compromise his values. He spat in the face of Ra's al Ghul when ordered to play Grim Reaper for the League of Shadows. Bruce even spared the life of Joker after he murdered Bruce's closest friend and the only woman who had held his heartstring.

Bruce is obviously an introvert poster child but also appears to possess strong Fi. INFP, INTJ, ISTJ, ISFP - I'd eliminate ISTJ first since he doesn't appear to embody SJ values. I'm more inclined to think INFP or (and more likely) ISFP though possibly INTJ with a snowballing Fi possibly due to never experiencing psychological closure of murder of his parents.
 

Orangey

Blah
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In defense of Batman being a feeler (in the Dark Knight only, mind you), I would mention the entire ending part where Batman decides to take the fall for Dent's crimes in order to preserve the 'morale' of Gotham's citizens. It was more important for Batman to win a symbolic war of 'good vs. evil' by preserving Dent's image as the 'white knight' than it was to reveal the reality and truth of what happened to the public. Seems very Fi to me.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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Hey dudes, I think Batman was IS_P.


Haven't decided F and T. I'm convinced he's not an IN_J like all yall say.
 
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